Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

First Riot Post
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Grunghole

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Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitcart View Post
Speaking of WoW talent trees, how do you feel about the upcoming WoW expansion? Talent trees are being shrunk (I think 3 points per tier?), players are getting 1 talent point approximately every 2 levels, many talents are being removed, most customization being taken away due to lack of real choice between talents (at least in the feral druid tree that I mostly play (100% cookiecutter)), players only being allowed to level up one tree until they have 30 points in it, etc.

To me, the entire upcoming expansion seems like a whole heap of bad design and may finally cause me to quit after having played since beta with probably something like 600 days of total /played time.
I'd like to hear a professional designers view on it.
That's what gets you to quit? You're a stoic man.

WoW sucked after the first expansion, imo. But what do I know?


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Qualm

Senior Member

10-15-2010

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Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Yes, which is why we are likely going to nerf these soon.
Thank god! Finally!


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Peacy

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osirris View Post
I had over 300 days /played on one 80 alone and I quit 2.5 years ago. You rack up time slowly or you arent seriously raiding enough. I'd like to hear a professional wow players view on it.
Hey, im a 3 time gladiator, 600+ days played player who has cleared all raid content to date. I really enjoy the new system WoW has offered players. one of WoW's biggest problems was how confusing it was to newer players, starting off and reaching end game. with the new systems and talent tree's it gives the player a better understanding of their class, and whats better for their class. you actually get abilities that benefit your class at low levels now, if you play a warrior at level one, by level 10 you now have multiple abilities that function is many different ways. insted of hitting charge -> heroic strike for 37 levels.

yes, to some players WoW was dumbed down a great deal, and talent trees ARE cookie cutter and somewhat plain. overall most of the changes were for the better, and Cataclysm looks to be promising. When everyone understand what to do on their class, and how to play it properly, more and more people will be able to progress through content, and they can make more dynamic choices on how to do the things players love.


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Splitcart

Senior Member

10-15-2010

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Originally Posted by Pronbear View Post
So i heard Feral is the only melee class who can bring down Healers/Hybrids atm?
Also, there's no choice, obviously. One thing is the best
Always.
Not sure, I haven't gotten to play since the patch, and I haven't pvp'd much since WotLK.
There was choice before, it was situational choice, but it was still a choice: "This is clearly the best build for aoe dps, that is clearly the bet for single target, the other is clearly best for utility/off-tanking", etc. Every one of them is the 'best' depending on what you want to be best at.
The current (4.0) feral dps build is just "Get every dps talent, then pick one tank talent to tack onto the end". I imagine it won't be hard to theory-craft which of the tank talents is best to pick up, and then even that choice will not remain.


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Splitcart

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunghole View Post
That's what gets you to quit? You're a stoic man.

WoW sucked after the first expansion, imo. But what do I know?
Actually I'm not getting into the REAL reason for most likely quitting: The alliance get freaking WEREWOLVES, and the horde gets goblins? I mean, really, the blatant Blizzard favoritism toward alliance has never shown through more since fear ward and paladins back in vanilla.

Yes, this post is (mostly) sarcasm.

Edit: Man, I hate goblins...


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Cynical Moose

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10-15-2010

This is very interesting, but cc is basically the ultimate anti-fun, it simply isn't nice not being able to control your hero and this game is based so heavly around cc


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Ventts

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10-15-2010

Too bad none of those actually helps people having fun.

Try fixing your leave problem instead of focusing on new champ all the time. Leaver > How fun champ is


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Sugar Mill

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitcart View Post
Actually I'm not getting into the REAL reason for most likely quitting: The alliance get freaking WEREWOLVES, and the horde gets goblins? I mean, really, the blatant Blizzard favoritism toward alliance has never shown through more since fear ward and paladins back in vanilla.

Yes, this post is (mostly) sarcasm.

Edit: Man, I hate goblins...
that post is such a shining example of players misconstruing differences between the two factions as seekret blizzard bias I just have to quote it

another classic is "oh developer x plays a warrior of course they're going to make warriors stronger"

just dumb


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Heathenl

Senior Member

10-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Non-Reliability
Doesn't Kat have a similar problem in terms of her builds? She seems to be in the middle of AP and AD that going either/or affects her in a very problematic way.


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TotCS

Junior Member

10-15-2010

Unless abilities and items are created incredibly straight-forward and simplistically players will always find ways to use such abilities in combination and ways that designers did not expect, which is what makes the game fun and interesting for hardcore players.
1 great example of a spell that seemed really awesome at first but ended up being amazingly overpowered was a druid's cyclone s3-4. Basically you took someone out of a fight for 6 seconds.. cool right? Makes the game a 2v3 for a bit like fear. It stops damage.... but wait it stops heals too! I see someone at 40%... ooo cyclone him. 6\3\1.5 seconds to position and cc enemy healer. que up starfire and other spells. Bam you just got 1 shotted from 40% because your trinket was down or lagged to much to cos or w/e. See that big heal just into casting? cyclone them and no heals for you and you jsut burned mana unintentionally. This spell had soooo much utility but not at first glance.
If every game was as simple to understand as the OP attempts to create you make a game with a very boring endgame. The emminciety of items and champions available would help remedy the situation calling for meta game skill choice games, but god dang I love seeing people execute combos I would never think of in game and watch how people attempt to counter it watching the meta game progress in turn.
Its such in-depth complexity of a game that makes a big differential between a hardcore and someone just jumping in or playing casual... and invites much more interesting game play.