Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

First Riot Post
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Spencer

Senior Member

08-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
The problem we run into is because the effects on support chars tend not to be that satisfying unless they are OP, we end up in a rough spot -- it's hard to make them feel good with those style of effects unless it's OP.

That's why we've migrated supports to be a little closer to mages and be able to kill people better (at the expense of some support capability). It's also why we like single target shields and hastes more than things like AE armor/mr auras and heals.
Agreed 100%. What a lot of people don't realize is that when they end up winning that 2v2 fight and their team carry has 20hp, that extra armor did in fact help win that fight. It just doesn't feel as satisfying as landing a huge heal or watching the enemy hit your carry for 10 (if the armor amount were OP for instance).


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ArlanKels

Senior Member

08-30-2011

I wonder if it would be useful or plausible, or otherwise interesting to have a champion whose passive is that when within a certain visual range of the enemies they have a DECREASE in movement speed and an increase in Armor/Magic resistance. Kind of like a "Shields up!" type passive, wherein they have a very fast movement speed so they can lurk/jungle/roam easier, but poor placement of themself will lead to the enemy escaping from them easily....


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Wonton55

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Senior Member

08-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer View Post
Agreed 100%. What a lot of people don't realize is that when they end up winning that 2v2 fight and their team carry has 20hp, that extra armor did in fact help win that fight. It just doesn't feel as satisfying as landing a huge heal or watching the enemy hit your carry for 10 (if the armor amount were OP for instance).
Yeah. The reason we play supports is to save teammates. This is why Janna and Zilean are so fun to play. Taric and Sona, who mainly provide passive buffs/debuffs, with small heals and a little CC on the side simply don't feel as powerful.


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Ataraxia Hollow

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Senior Member

08-30-2011

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Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Was pretty busy. But Kuo did this character from scratch. He's done a ton of other innovative stuff in the past with his Diablo 2 mod, Renekton and the character he's releasing next . Wildsman was not a source of inspiration.
Can you by any chances spoil what the next champion is going to be?Things like gender,role etc. will pretty much do the job.

Pwease


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Xan9000

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Member

08-30-2011

I was reading alot of your posts here ZIleas, but I was wondering, Would an Volibear, the Armored Bear be an example of Anti-fun? I would really like to see him created and I would have fun playing him.

If he isn't anti-fun, why would you try and block his creation?


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SaikoGekido

Senior Member

08-30-2011

Plays Tiny all day. Tosses team mates into towers whenever possible. Fun game mechanic that needs to be in LoL?

Plays Pudge all day. Buys blink dagger. Teleports to broken bit of map. Grabs team mate into broken bit of map. Fun game mechanic that needs to be in LoL? (EDIT: I forgot that Icefrog eventually removed the ability for VS and Pudge to use the dagger.)

Orianna and Wildsman abilities look almost the same if you squint real hard, stop reading halfway through the paragraph and look at the numbers that are similar but not the same. All of DOTA was copy pasted by HoN when it was released. HoN recently released Monkey King at the same time as Wu Kong despite the long advance notice of Wu Kong from Riot Staff. HoN has gone the f2p model. Who is copying who?

TL;DR You must pay a toll if you wish to cross this bridge

EDIT: Also, if you look at the back of that forum post, they never even made the Wildsman. It was a hero concept that died.


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Kari Arisu

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Senior Member

08-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
The problem with using a "power without gameplay" mechanic is that you tend to have to 'over-buff' the mechanic and create a game balance problem before people appreciate it. As a result, we tend to keep Auras weak, and/or avoid them altogether, and/or pair them on an active/passive where the active is very strong and satisfying, so that the passive is more strategic around character choice. For example, Sona's auras are all quite weak -- because at weak values they ARE appreciated properly.
I apologize if this has been touched on in the 100+ pages of this thread, but I'd just like to comment:
I have never appreciated Sona's auras.
To me, they have always been weak and unnoticeable, not to mention the fact her auras change depending on the last used skill.
Since I've started playing, Sona's auras have been nerfed to the ground.

So, an aura that was unnoticeable when Riot considered it overpowered enough to need a nerf, is now purposely made less noticeable.


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AM6OZero

Member

08-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaikoGekido View Post
Plays Tiny all day. Tosses team mates into towers whenever possible. Fun game mechanic that needs to be in LoL?

Plays Pudge all day. Buys blink dagger. Teleports to broken bit of map. Grabs team mate into broken bit of map. Fun game mechanic that needs to be in LoL?

Orianna and Wildsman abilities look almost the same if you squint real hard, stop reading halfway through the paragraph and look at the numbers that are similar but not the same. All of DOTA was copy pasted by HoN when it was released. HoN recently released Monkey King at the same time as Wu Kong despite the long advance notice of Wu Kong from Riot Staff. HoN has gone the f2p model. Who is copying who?

TL;DR You must pay a toll if you wish to cross this bridge

EDIT: Also, if you look at the back of that forum post, they never even made the Wildsman. It was a hero concept that died.
Pudge and Vengeful are restricted from using blink dagger


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SaikoGekido

Senior Member

08-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AM6OZero View Post
Pudge and Vengeful are restricted from using blink dagger
Aw, I remember that change. Wasn't always that way. There's this spot on the original DotA Allstars map in the top lane that's a hole/fissure in the ground. If you blink right, you can get down there and do horrible things that no one else can see. Ever been stuck in a cramped dark hole with a naked fat guy?


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Lord Nat

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Senior Member

08-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaikoGekido View Post
Aw, I remember that change. Wasn't always that way. There's this spot on the original DotA Allstars map in the top lane that's a hole/fissure in the ground. If you blink right, you can get down there and do horrible things that no one else can see. Ever been stuck in a cramped dark hole with a naked fat guy?
Ya before the change it was normal to get 1-2 people trapped in there for a few mins while they tried to bring a TP scroll to them self to get out.