Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

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Yukarine

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Senior Member

08-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Basically, you expect your enemies to mess with you. You don't expect your teammates to. If an enemy yanks you to your death, you deal with it. If an ally yanks you to your death or prevents you from getting a kill, you get angry.

We have gone out of our way to avoid situations where we create team hate because we think that having positive experiences with your teammates is a big part of what makes this genre fun.
I would like to make a note here.
I understand the potential frustration generated by " If an enemy yanks you to your death, you deal with it. If an ally yanks you to your death or prevents you from getting a kill" but I think you are missing something that I would put into the same category.

Have a look at Karma and Janna for example.
Spirit Bond, Heavenly Wave and Monsoon all require your team to work with you. Generating a higher frustration level on Karma because you have to sacrifice a Mantra charge to heal your allies, having to put yourself out of position for Spirit Bond to deal damage and/or to boost up an ally escaping or chasing / slow down an enemy to enable a gank or kill.

Janna has to sacrifice her ultimate to push enemies out of range or heal her allies, that is if they stay inside the healing circle.

Both champions, each for their share of gameplay and style, generate a high potential of frustrating the support player for lack of team play.


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Arcanist

Senior Member

08-30-2011

I was very disappointed when Zileas said that they didn't like playing against Rogues and Warlocks in WoW. Now I know why this game is so casual. Oh man. Design director. :/ Make your game however you want to. I am just disappointed. The mana burn too.


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0Splicer0

Senior Member

08-30-2011

I couldn't understand a thing from the post. The only thing i got was the Kayle exemple in the last part, random chances are really annoying, especially if you are unlucky, that is why we have crit chance and a Tryndamere that can 2 hit someone at lvl 1.


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exes4eyes

Senior Member

08-30-2011

Pretty much says it all right here. There's no "clutch" radiance activate really. You pop it when you get into a fight. End of story. The "tricky" part is knowing when/remembering to turn it off. I always forget about it because there isn't a super-noticeable visual effect. If there were a cooler visual effect, I might "feel" alot better about it. Can I have explosions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Power Without Gameplay
This is when we give a big benefit in a way that players don't find satisfying or don't notice. The classic example of this is team benefit Auras. In general, other players don't value the aura you give them very much, and you don't value it much either -- even though auras can win games. As a REALLY general example, I would say that players value a +50 armor aura only about twice as much as a +10 armor aura... Even though +50 is 5x better. Another example would be comparing a +10 damage aura to a skill that every 10 seconds gives flaming weapons that make +30 damage to all teammates next attack (with fire and explosions!). I am pretty sure that most players are WAY more excited about the fiery weapons buff, even though the strength is lower overall.


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

08-30-2011
271 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gl?ry View Post
Newsflash: there are like 80 characters in this game already. The first time LoL player is absolutely ADRIFT. Yeah well-implied particles can go a long way to showing what people can do, but basically you're not going to know what the other team can do unless you see it or read about it. Now as soon as you get one batch of characters down, free week changes.
Adrift? Maybe. You only see perhaps 15 or so characters with any regularity in the first 10 levels -- free week + the 450 IP champions. I think that's a lot more manageable than the 80 you see at level 30.


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Selomorbos

Senior Member

08-30-2011

Zil your the best <3


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

08-30-2011
272 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0Splicer0 View Post
I couldn't understand a thing from the post. The only thing i got was the Kayle exemple in the last part, random chances are really annoying, especially if you are unlucky, that is why we have crit chance and a Tryndamere that can 2 hit someone at lvl 1.
Actually, crits dont streak in LoL unless you have a very high crit chance, so no, that doesn't happen anymore.


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Zileas

VP of Game Design

08-30-2011
273 of 282 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukarine View Post
I would like to make a note here.
I understand the potential frustration generated by " If an enemy yanks you to your death, you deal with it. If an ally yanks you to your death or prevents you from getting a kill" but I think you are missing something that I would put into the same category.

Have a look at Karma and Janna for example.
Spirit Bond, Heavenly Wave and Monsoon all require your team to work with you. Generating a higher frustration level on Karma because you have to sacrifice a Mantra charge to heal your allies, having to put yourself out of position for Spirit Bond to deal damage and/or to boost up an ally escaping or chasing / slow down an enemy to enable a gank or kill.

Janna has to sacrifice her ultimate to push enemies out of range or heal her allies, that is if they stay inside the healing circle.

Both champions, each for their share of gameplay and style, generate a high potential of frustrating the support player for lack of team play.
Could be. Support champions ARE less popular than other types of champions. I agree it takes a different type of player to enjoy it a lot.


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0Splicer0

Senior Member

08-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acranist1 View Post
I was very disappointed when Zileas said that they didn't like playing against Rogues and Warlocks in WoW. Now I know why this game is so casual. Oh man. Design director. :/ Make your game however you want to. I am just disappointed. The mana burn too.
Just because you like it, doesn't mean everyone has to. I certainly know that you don't like to be ult-locked by Malzahar or combo-killed by Veigar.

And what is the problem with a casual game? it's much better than a frustrating freak show where everyone plays the same way and say they are the best because they spent 100 dollars in items, yes i hate mmo.


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Razzor411

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Recruiter

08-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I have two comments about this:

1) Yes, Tryndamere has some issues. Among others, he's built as an ult-dependent supercarry. It has a variety of issues at the severity it's at. But, we aren't going to go pull the rug out from under him.

2) Selectively ignoring anti-patterns to create gameplay is fine -- as long as it's 'worth it'. Some exchanges are, some aren't.
Hey Zileas please anwser me this i need to understand it you said about optimistic play example with annies disinigrate and about overpowering skills that arent reliable so what about skill shots i mean u can rely on them but sometimes not enitely example is today i played as urgot enemy yi attacks me and we go in a 1v1 i did kill him but during the fight i missed 2 of my assid hunters mainly because im new to urgot but he doeasnt have a line in which he shoots it i guess its okay but its kinda easy to miss same with ezreals miystic shot should it be a bit more powerfull because compared go gankplanks parley (i compare these 2 because they apply hit on effects) is gakplanks main sorce of dmg and players focus on building crtitical chance because you cant miss it on the other hand ezreals mystic shot even tho it decereases cd by 1 sec on his skills you can miss and its dmg isnt that high enough same goes for esence flux and arcane **** okay arcane shift is okay because its a great escape tool but there are situatinons where my enemy is escaping and i esence flux to him past his minons and the missile hits the creep insted of the enemy and esence flux scales with AP and gives bonus AS to alies why deoasnt it do with ezreal my point is ezreal is skill shot based im pretty good with him but skill shots arent something you can completly rely on so can u explain it why is it like this to me?Please?