Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

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Faiike

Senior Member

08-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
We did not nerf him very much, and he WAS pubstomping pretty hard. We prioritize balance for competitive players, but if a character is causing a huge issue for the average player, we are going to fix it. Lots of characters are somewhat OP at mid elo and we don't touch them (but would if they were somewhat OP at a pro level) but at a certain point, we have to do something. Sometimes this will happen. But over half of our charactesr were played in the season 1 finals, so I think we serve the competitive players pretty well.
He's a weaker Irelia. Irelia has true-damage, a more spammable charge (that applies on-hits, including Red Buff and is more mana-efficient), an instantly-applied CC, reduced CC on her, more consistent self-healing, and a ranged ultimate that heals her.

In comparison, Xin has higher attack speed and a defense steroid based on number of targets hit...


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Vinnie

Senior Member

08-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faiike View Post
He's a weaker Irelia. Irelia has true-damage, a more spammable charge (that applies on-hits, including Red Buff and is more mana-efficient), an instantly-applied CC, reduced CC on her, more consistent self-healing, and a ranged ultimate that heals her.

In comparison, Xin has higher attack speed and a defense steroid based on number of targets hit...
Irellia nerfs inbound


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Kades

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Associate QA Analyst - Gameplay

08-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by lorylke View Post
I got up fairly far in ELO when I started, or so I think, and I was being queued with level 30's with 10x my games won when I was level 20, they had full racks of runes, which amounted to an extra 2k-3k gold item to start the game with, they had full sets of masteries, which only furthered their advantage, and they always had a better choice of heroes than me.

Which full set of runes equals a 3k gold item...? I can't think of any... Is it that new "I Hyperbolize To Weaken My Point" item they're still working on in beta...?


And just as an aside, if you really are as formidable as you claim, you should feel flattered to be paired against level 30's so quickly. The matchmaking assumes that's fair competition. Something to be proud about- not cry about...


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LouisLeGros

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Senior Member

08-29-2011

How many of these anti-patterns would Phantom Lancer fall into?


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ZodiarkSavior

Senior Member

08-29-2011

is Anti-Pattern even a word?


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Logios

Senior Member

08-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I must defer to my trusted team member Morello on this one...



Contrary to popular belief, game design is not a zero sum exchange between 'noobs' and 'good players like you'. Lots of things we can do make the game more fun for everyone, or make the game for one group without affecting it for the other. The point of avoiding the anti-patterns is to make the game easier to learn, but no easier to actually master.
Good job completely avoiding the argument. Just because morello claims "noobs" is an invalid argument doesn't make it true. Truth is your "anti-fun" and "burden of knowledge" philosophies cater to less skilled players and remove a lot of potential depth to the game. It's next to impossible to design unique characters with new abilities if you are constantly worrying about some arbitrary "anti fun" BS and whether or not a low level player will understand how the skill works during the first couple of times they face a character. This is why LoL basically has 5 characters with slight differences (for example: Generic Melee - Q, on hit effect of some type / W, steroid / E, gap closer / R, AOE of some type, can vary but not by much).

The worst part is that any characters with unique abilities (TF's ulti for example) get nerfed to hell because "it's not fair TF can do that but not anyone else!" So not only are you releasing generic, cookie cutter characters, you are homogenizing the characters that currently exist. Why in the hell would I pick TF now when I can pick Annie or Brand? Now they all do the same thing (aoe/burst) only Annie/Brand does it way better.


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Burnie

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Senior Member

08-29-2011

First thing I thought when I opened the thread:

RED THREAD REDEMPTION


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ArlanKels

Senior Member

08-29-2011

Zileas ~

When attempting to play champions that are similar to Shaco or Talon, ones who tend to focus on quick and dirty hit and run tactics, quite often players tend to get enraged or angry when someone actually plays them well. They almost feel like they're being cheated, and I have personally seen a player who doesn't understand how Talons ult works stand completely immobile, baffled and confused, in the middle of the ring of blades(It was hilarious to watch btw).

Obviously these champions therein seem to be punching the one anti-pattern(The one about knowing how things work beforehand or what have you...my memory is a slippery slope covered in chocolate) in the face...

Yet they also at the same time don't seem exceedingly popular...I see some talons of course but attribute that mostly to the fact that he's brand spanking new, and I rarely if ever see Shaco's(One in ten matches I'd say?)...

Is there a potential correlation there or...?


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Funster

Senior Member

08-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
We did not nerf him very much, and he WAS pubstomping pretty hard. We prioritize balance for competitive players, but if a character is causing a huge issue for the average player, we are going to fix it. Lots of characters are somewhat OP at mid elo and we don't touch them (but would if they were somewhat OP at a pro level) but at a certain point, we have to do something. Sometimes this will happen. But over half of our charactesr were played in the season 1 finals, so I think we serve the competitive players pretty well.
Surely you know by now what a joke Xin is in high level play... if you actually do balance for that, why don't you nerf his pubstompyness and actually buff him to a point where he is useful past 600 elo?

I know that there will likely NEVER be a time where every champion is played in a tournament setting... but why are you settling for the way it is now? Can't you at least TRY to get to a point where everyone is viable and bans are entirely a way to target out specific players because they are just particularly good with them? There should never be auto-ban champs, and there should never be auto-lose champs (Xin Zhao past 600 elo, for example)


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godoftheds

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Member

08-29-2011

you have my respect for posting tomb of horrors references. I now trust the developers