Black Cleaver + LW. Is this real?

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IS13940001471ffbdf28d0e

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Hey, I am Maokai at level 18 and with Iceborn Gauntlet and Randuins I get 220 armor.

The enemy has BC and LW.

Black Cleaver reduce 25% of my total armor. So it reduces 55 of my armor. Making me have 165 armor.

LW+ 8% armor penetration masteries penetrate 40% of my current armor. So I only have now 99 armor.

But BC also gives 10 flat armor pen, so I only have 89 armor to defend myself.

Wait, there is more. 5 armor pen from masteries.

84 armor.

If you are using all armor penetration runes which gives 19 you end up with a ****ing 65 armor!!!!

Okay now to make things perfectly, lets INCREASE the COST of armor, and DECREASE the stats of it!
220 to 65 armor, with only Black Cleaver and Last Whisper, 21 offense masteries and Armor Pen runes. From 220 to 65!!!!!!!!!!!

220 ->65

65 is 30% of 220. So you just ignored 70% of my total armor. LOL.

Is this going to change? Because seeing 6500 gold I spent to prevent Physical Damage to hurt me do nothing because enemy spent 5300 gold is not a LITTLE fun.
They even penetrate more Armor that I bought!!




In season3 we had:

Armor costing more
Armor gives less armor
AD is cheaper
New Black Cleaver shred 25% of your team's armor really fast.


So, I can say that armor got 2 direct nerfs and 2 indirect nerfs in this pre-season.
Don't you think it was too much? I can even say that the change in the penetration formula is kind of a "nerf" to armor.




I want to link this thread, because AP Casters are losing space in League. They only do good against others AP Casters. If they face an AD Caster, the AP just get wrecked. And now people are realizing it and sending more often things like Kha'zix, Talon, Riven, Pantheon mid lane.
My goal is, if they buff AD, automatically Armor and AP are nerfed. If Armor gets buffed, so AP will be and AD will be nerfed too. What happened in the pre-season 3? AD got buffed, Armor got nerfed. This mean that AD got super buffed, and Armor got super nerfed and then AP got nerfed too because AD is stronger than before. This sounds a lot confusing but I hope you understand.
Here is the thread, support them too.
: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...ight=ap+caster




Some people said "Stacking armor is a bad thing." And you are right, stacking armor is not cost effective.
However, you need to realize that if the enemy has the stats I said, he will do true damage if you armor is equal or less than 76.
If your target has 100 armor, only 11 of his armor will be left.
If he has 150 armor, only 33 will be left.
I am not even counting that some champions like Olaf,Darius,Jarvan,Jayce and Vi, can reduce/penetrate enemy's armor with theirs own kit. I know that BC or/and LW is not a solid build in some of these champions, but imagine what they do with your armor if they build it.

Other people are saying that 65 armor is still 40% damage reduction.
Let's say enemy ADC is doing 800 damage with his autoattacks.
So, you take 480 of his autoattacks. Let's say you have 3.5k HP. 3500/480 = 7,3. So you need to take 8 autoattacks from him to die. Let's say he has 1.5 AS, so he does 1,5 auto attacks per second. So, 8/1,5 = 5,3 seconds.
You die in 5,3 seconds. With just the ADC damage. (This math isn't perfect, because 1- Not all the autos will crit. 2- ADC usually have more AS than 1.5. 3- ADC usually do more damage than 800. However we can see that it is not that simple with the 40% damage reduction argument.)


I want to give my suggestion to fix it, because I only showed the problem and did not give any suggestions and any suggestion are being discussed here. Before everyone trash talks me, I don't have the data Riot does and ANYTHING I will say in this suggestion can be the RIGHT thing to do. I would say to NERF Attack Damage Runes from 15AD to 11AD. Why? Because most of the snowball of these AD Casters mid against AP are from early game. Level 3 and 4 are when the early kills happens. Every autoattack does 15 more damage, and your abilities scale with AD too. So it is super strong. You can't compare what AP runes give to what AD runes give, AD runes are RIDICULOUS superior to Ap runes. Other thing is to decrease the BC passive to 15%. However, decrease it gold cost too by a bit.
Inb4 " Hey you Suggested to nerf AD runes but in your math you said Arp runes". Yes, you are right. In reality, Arp runes mid lane is not the BEST option. You want to snowball hard early with 15 more AD. I just said Arp runes because I wanted to highlight the size of Arp/ArmorReduction can be.
Again, in this suggestion, I can be talking a bunch of stupid things. Don't take it being the truth of the truth. So lets be peaceful, and discuss with politeness and share your point of view about everything I said in this thread. Other thing, I put this suggestion on my thread when it had 833 upvotes.


Help me make this thread stay on top so somebody from Riot can read and respond it.

The only purpose of this thread is to make the game better for us. Riot, do their best. Remember that.

I know that it is fun to have Black Cleaver plus Last Whisper and laugh at the enemy's armor, but you have to think on the other side too.

Edit: 1000 upvotes. Thank you all the people who are supporting this thread. AP and Tanks are very weak right now. Riot need to do something about it asap. Please.


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Discpled

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Health is cheaper and far more readily available... get more health... plus the masteries gives a **** ton more. BUt I agree, something isn't balanced.


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Kise

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Senior Member

12-22-2012

HP is better against Cleaver and LW. I understand the desire for IBG's stats but that probably could have gone to... I dunno ohmwrecker? Yeah Ohmwrecker needs some love.


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hollowlite

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Stop getting armor against Arpen like a noob, get some health.


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gsai

Senior Member

12-22-2012

% armpen stacks multiplicatively.


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Shiny Goggles

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Senior Member

12-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollowlite View Post
Stop getting armor against Arpen like a noob, get some health.
If you don't build armor, then they'll just do even more damage against you. You're better off at least mitigating some of their damage.


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A Bronze V Noob

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollowlite View Post
Stop getting armor against Arpen like a noob, get some health.
Get some HP, that way, the enemy AD carry can just melt you with crits and attack speed. Oh wait, get armor. Oh wait, the Black Cleaver stacks are able to be used by their AD carry as well because its an effect on YOU. Nevermind. Don't build anything, just die. It's what riot intended.


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Absinthe

Senior Member

12-22-2012

If only an item existed to give you health and armor at the same time.


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IS13940001471ffbdf28d0e

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsai64 View Post
% armpen stacks multiplicatively.
I know and I did it. If I haven't done it, it would be 43%.


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FrozenChinchilla

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Senior Member

12-22-2012

6 Sunfire Capes