Which iteration is your favorite?!

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2 0 0%
3 1 11.11%
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Taric, the -GEM- Knight "rework"

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Garband

Senior Member

12-21-2012

So, I was having some lovely man-thinking time on ye olde porcelain throne.. And this glaring, terrible issue was suddenly quite blatant.

Taric has nothing but aesthetics (and skill names) that deal with gems.. And he's the friggin' Gem Knight!

I mean, sure.. Shatter is sort of gem-themed, I guess. But, look at the rest of his skills:

Quote:
Gemcraft (passive):Taric's autoattacks replenish his mana for 7.5% of the damage dealt.
Quote:
Imbue (Q): Taric channels earthen energy to heal his target ally. As the magic flows through them he is healed for the same amount. If Taric heals only himself, the heal will be 40% more effective. His autoattacks on champions decrease this spell's cooldown by 3 seconds each or by 1 second if hitting non-champions.
Quote:
Dazzle: Taric emits a brilliant ball of prismatic light at a target enemy, dealing magic damage (lower damage the farther the target is), and stunning them for 1.5 seconds.
Quote:
Radiance: Taric slams the ground dealing magic damage to nearby enemies. For the next 10 seconds, Taric gains attack damage and ability power and receives an aura that grants nearby allied champions half the bonuses.
How does any of that deal with gems beyond the names? It doesn't! :O

Here's something I came up with, however, to help change this!

People complain about Taric's passive all the time (I like it when I solo top Taric, though). So, I thought this up for his passive (I have a couple of iterations. They aren't that different).. Honestly, only #3 and #4 seem feasible. I'm including #1 and #2 just to show other ideas. :]

All of these ideas are just rough drafts, and will take a while to fine-tune. Please voice any constructive critique you can think of (or support ;] ), and I'll work on tuning up the community's choice of which system.


All Iterations:

Change the passive to deal with gems. Have a list of each gem and what it does (Ruby for Vigor, Emerald for Insight, Opal for Harmony, Sapphire for Divinity). Each ability would be granted extra effects for the use of gems.
Optional: Charges in the manner of Heimer turrets, Karma Mantra, etc.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~First Iteration:

Give each ability a "Pick A Card" type deal. To clarifiy, I mean each ability has a roll through the gems in the same way "Pick A Card" works. Click the ability, it cycles, click again to pick the gem you want to augment the ability with. The gem stays until you use the ability (or it could time out like PAC).
Different spell icons based on gem <red, green, blue, opal> and different art features <will list in example to follow> for each gem and spell would be added to give a way of recognizing what Gem you have selected, much like the blue/yellow/red cards above TF's head.

Disclaimer: Anything numbered are just multiple ideas for the upgrade, not both effects will be applied.

Examples:

Q. Imbue:
Ruby for Vigor -- Extra HoT effect

Emerald for Insight -- Extra heal for % missing life of target or % max life of Taric/target.

Opal for Harmony --
1) AoE Heal, like Alistar's
2) Something like Martyr's (HoN) heal -- Activate to spend 20% of your current Health and heal nearby allies for 35/40/45/50% of that amount plus an additional 40/60/80/100 HP. (that is just a copy paste of Martyr's ability, just showing what I'm talking about.. I know that Riot would never implement a mechanic that harms yourself)

Sapphire for Divinity -- Base heal + shield

W. Shatter:
Ruby for Vigor --
Passive:
1) AoE health regen
2) AoE lifesteal/spellvamp
Active:
1) AoE minor healing reduction + minor armor reduction
2) AoE healing + lifesteal/spellvamp reduction (no armor shred)
3) AoE regen bonus (bonus = effect increased) or lifesteal/spellvamp bonus

Emerald for Insight --
Passive: AoE reflect damage
Active:
1) AoE increased damage taken
2) AoE blind/increased chance to miss

Opal for Harmony --
Passive:
1) AoE increased resists (armor + mr, lesser effect)
2) Share part of Taric's stats if X condition is met (Think Akali passive). Example: If Taric has X AP, Y AP is given to nearby allies. If Taric has Q MR, Z MR is given to nearby allies. (but for all stats).
Active:
1) Shred resists
2) Reduce damage dealt

Sapphire for Divinity --
Passive:
1) AoE mana regen bonus
2) Autoattacks replenish mana equal to X% of the damage dealt.
Active: AoE mana burn + mana restore

E. Dazzle:
Ruby for Vigor --
Stun longer, up to 2 seconds, the lower/higher the target's life is.

Emerald for Insight --
Silence + slow for 1.5-2 seconds.

Opal for Harmony --
1) AoE stun for 1 second
2) AoE slow for 1.25-1.5 seconds.
3) Bouncing slow/stun for reduced effect, reducing even farther on each bounce (lowest being .75 second stun or 1 second slow).

Sapphire for Divinity --
Restore 30-50% of mana cost.

Pros:
Extremely fun.
Very versatile and useful.
High skill cap.

Cons:
TOO versatile and useful.
TOO high of a skill cap.
Becomes clunky having to "Pick A Card" every skill. Response time becomes slower because of having to wait on cycle.
Will most likely become the most played support because he can do any and everything.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~Second Iteration:

The problem with the First Iteration, is that Taric sort of becomes like the Invoker, from DotA. Tons of spell possibilities, insanely high skill cap, insanely high burden of knowledge. I don't think Riot would ever even consider this.

However, you could apply the same concept ("Pick A Gem") but have the gem you pick apply to whichever spell you cast next -- basically the same idea, but much simpler.

Pros:
Still very fun.
Still versatile and useful.
Lower skill cap.

Cons:
Still a little TOO versatile and useful.
Still a little high of a skill cap for what I think Riot wants in League..
Still a little clunky.

Basically, all the issues from the first iteration are still there, just less so.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~Third Iteration: Decent Idea

This takes the idea of the Second Iteration's simplicity and applies an Udyr concept... Stances. Instead of being "Pick a Gem" it's "Ruby/Emerald/Opal/Sapphire Stance".

Like the second iteration, it maintains most of the same problems to a lesser degree.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~Fourth Iteration: The Most Acceptable

This is what I feel has the biggest chance of being implemented. It reduces most of the problems to such a small level that they aren't that problematic anymore.

Use an evolution system, like Kha'zix. However, this system will have to have extra options. Instead of just one upgrade option per skill, you'll have to pick the skill you want to augment, and then choose which augment you want.

For example:
You hit level 6 -- time to pick a gem! Evolution pops up once you level Radiance. You choose to augment/evolve Shatter. Another evolution bar pops up, and you choose from Ruby, Emerald, Opal, and Sapphire. Repeat at level 11 and 16, of course.

Extra:I think that Skarner and Taric should have a special interaction like Rengar and Kha'Zix, obviously just for the extra augment onto his ult. Why Skarner? Because he's basically a huge purple diamond.

Pros:
Still adds a lot of fun.
More versatile and useful.
Minimalizes skill cap increase.
No clunkiness like the prior iterations.

Cons:
Coding double evolution system.

This iteration keeps Taric from becoming Invoker-like, keeps him from becoming #1 support, and adds depth to his character through lore and decision making.




Thanks for reading this huge wall of text! I hope you enjoy the idea(s). Don't forget to vote in the poll and share the thread!


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Amencorner

Recruiter

12-22-2012

Some pretty good ideas up in hurrrrrrr.


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Garband

Senior Member

12-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amencorner View Post
Some pretty good ideas up in hurrrrrrr.
Thanks man!

I hope they do something with his passive, whether it's my idea or not. I literally can't think of anyone who likes Taric's passive. :/


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NA Rukhron

Senior Member

12-22-2012

5th Iteration:
Takes the idea of the 4th Iteration and modifies as follows:

When Taric levels up a spell he picks a gem for the spell.

Excludes Opal (opal is a white/rainbow gem and we could use as "default", it stands for harmony and would most likely embody the idea of a balance between all others, which could easily range from UP to OP or fall into redundancy)

New Spells Suggestions

Gemcraft: (something along those lines)
Attacking generats special effect based on your gems and damage.
Ruby: heals self for 5% damage done and an additional 15/30/45/60 (+0.5*AP) over 2 seconds.
Sapphire: regain 7.5% damage done as mana and an addiotional 0.5/1.0/1.5/2.0% max mana over 2 seconds.
Emerald: deal additional magic damage equal 10% total AD plus 10/20/30/40

From now on they all remain the same (maybe tweak some numbers down) and you add the gem socketing xD

Imbue:
Ruby: enhance healing
Sapphire: a percentage of the healing is granted as mana
Emerald: reduces base cooldown

Shatter:
Ruby: enhance armor bonus from aura and passive
Sapphire: Add 0.5 sec silence
Emerald: increases damage

Dazzle:
Ruby: Increases Stun
Sapphire: Reduces cooldown
Emerald: Increases Damage

Radiance:
Ruby: knocks enemies on cast (like rammus powerball)
Sapphire: Increases aura duration
Emerald: Increases aura power

As you can see the focus are:
Ruby: survivability and power to protect
Sapphire: utility
Emerald: magical power

If I have time to put together a prototype I'll post in the forums (I'll remember to credit you here )


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Garband

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Rukhron View Post
Excludes Opal (opal is a white/rainbow gem and we could use as &quot;default&quot;, it stands for harmony and would most likely embody the idea of a balance between all others, which could easily range from UP to OP or fall into redundancy)
Hm. I hadn't really thought of the issues with opal. I had been using its "harmony" as a diction to benefit his whole team, but to make that concept balanced would require such small amounts of whatever the effects are, that opal augments would more than likely be quite lackluster.. That, our else they'd be so beneficial in most general circumstances that opal would be the go-to augment for almost every situation, rendering the whole augment system redundant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Rukhron View Post
New Spells Suggestions

Gemcraft: (something along those lines)
Attacking generats special effect based on your gems and damage.
Ruby: heals self for 5% damage done and an additional 15/30/45/60 (+0.5*AP) over 2 seconds.
Sapphire: regain 7.5% damage done as mana and an addiotional 0.5/1.0/1.5/2.0% max mana over 2 seconds.
Emerald: deal additional magic damage equal 10% total AD plus 10/20/30/40
I actually really like this.. I hadn't even considered leaving the old passive and augmenting it as well.. I was thinking more along the lines of a Renekton type passive where it just describes how the system works.

What your passive does is really nice. It really opens Taric up to more roles than just support, which, as someone who plays both bruiser top and mage mid Taric, I really like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Rukhron View Post
Imbue:
Ruby: enhance healing
Sapphire: a percentage of the healing is granted as mana
Emerald: reduces base cooldown
My issues here are:
Sapphire would never restore mana. They nerfed Infuse because it offered way too much sustain. Especially combined with possibly leaving mana restore on autos from passive, and my next point..

Emerald would be extremely strong. Imbue's CD is already reduced on autoattacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Rukhron View Post
Shatter:
Ruby: enhance armor bonus from aura and passive
Sapphire: Add 0.5 sec silence
Emerald: increases damage
I don't think that Riot would increase the armor values on Shatter. It's already 30 on allies and 60 on Taric at rank 5.

And, this is one of my least favorite things about Viktor... 0.5 second silence is silly. Its only function is to interrupt something already occurring, which I'm fine with -- not all abilities of the same type should have the same function. My issue is that at 0.5 seconds, out feels like nothing happened. You feel very unrewarded for the resources and time put into the ability. Even 0.75 is a lot better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Rukhron View Post
Radiance:
Ruby: knocks enemies on cast (like rammus powerball)
Sapphire: Increases aura duration
Emerald: Increases aura power
I think Emerald and Ruby should be swapped, but otherwise good. :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Rukhron View Post
If I have time to put together a prototype I'll post in the forums (I'll remember to credit you here :p)
Thanks for the support and brainstorming! I'll probably be putting together my own prototype soon. :] Just gotta do some research and number crunching. Haha


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NA Rukhron

Senior Member

12-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garband View Post
Hm. I hadn't really thought of the issues with opal. I had been using its "harmony" as a diction to benefit his whole team, but to make that concept balanced would require such small amounts of whatever the effects are, that opal augments would more than likely be quite lackluster.. That, our else they'd be so beneficial in most general circumstances that opal would be the go-to augment for almost every situation, rendering the whole augment system redundant.

I actually really like this.. I hadn't even considered leaving the old passive and augmenting it as well.. I was thinking more along the lines of a Renekton type passive where it just describes how the system works.

What your passive does is really nice. It really opens Taric up to more roles than just support, which, as someone who plays both bruiser top and mage mid Taric, I really like.

My issues here are:
Sapphire would never restore mana. They nerfed Infuse because it offered way too much sustain. Especially combined with possibly leaving mana restore on autos from passive, and my next point..

Emerald would be extremely strong. Imbue's CD is already reduced on autoattacks.


I don't think that Riot would increase the armor values on Shatter. It's already 30 on allies and 60 on Taric at rank 5.

And, this is one of my least favorite things about Viktor... 0.5 second silence is silly. Its only function is to interrupt something already occurring, which I'm fine with -- not all abilities of the same type should have the same function. My issue is that at 0.5 seconds, out feels like nothing happened. You feel very unrewarded for the resources and time put into the ability. Even 0.75 is a lot better.

I think Emerald and Ruby should be swapped, but otherwise good.
Thanks for the support and brainstorming! I'll probably be putting together my own prototype soon. :] Just gotta do some research and number crunching. Haha
Numbers can be tweaked. It is what isn't expressed in numbers that matter.

For instance:
Ruby Radiance knock disrupts enemies: I find out that when taric tries to tank he is under-rated due to his lack of ability to disrupt properly.
Emerald Radiance aura power: More power in Radiance aura will sinergize with all other effects of emerald. Take a look at the AD part of Emerald Gemcraft and try to remember the bonus AP value when you use radiance to start the combo for the other spells.

This and thematic: A vigorous (ruby) strike strong enough to knock nearby enemies.


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XSkull9

Junior Member

12-23-2012

I've taken a liking to iteration three.

Here's my attempt to rework Taric's abilities.

Passive: Gemcraft:
Taric's active stance grants bonuses to himself an nearby allies.

Q: Ruby for Vigor:
[Aura]: Increases health regen.
[Active]: Damages and stuns surrounding enemies.

W: Emerald for Insight:
[Aura]: Increases armor and magic resist.
[Active]: Reduces target enemy's armor and magic resist.

E: Opal for Harmony:
[Aura]: Increases mana regen.
[Active]: AoE heal/buff

R: Sapphire for Divinity:
[Aura]: Increases ability power.
[Active]: Skillshot line the reduces enemy attack damage.


Variant A:
Taking a bit from Jayce, the W and E become ranged stances, changing the range of Taric's auto-attacks to 300, and making the following change to E:

E: Opal for Harmony:
[Aura]: Increases mana regen.
[Passive]: Taric's attack can heal allies at the cost of some mana.
[Active]: AoE heal/buff


*Disclaimer*
I'm fairly new to this champion concepts stuff, so if I'm doing it wrong, tell me how.


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Garband

Senior Member

12-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Rukhron View Post
This and thematic: A vigorous (ruby) strike strong enough to knock nearby enemies.
Ahh good point. I was thinking along the lines of "So far Ruby has been a protective augment, and Emerald has been more offensive, so increasing aura power would belong more to Ruby . . ." but you're absolutely right. Ruby is for Vigor (lol, didn't even mean for it to be an entendre), so that would mean the strike would be more powerful -> disruption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XSkull9 View Post
I've taken a liking to iteration three.

Here's my attempt to rework Taric's abilities.

I'm fairly new to this champion concepts stuff, so if I'm doing it wrong, tell me how.
Your idea is interesting.. But I was more aimed at just reworking his passive to augment his other abilities with gems, not completely reworking Taric. ;p


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Granmarfunk

Member

12-26-2012

i think your reasoning for doing this makes sense but i think taric is in a good place where he is as a champion.


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TittySprinklesJr

Senior Member

12-27-2012

This looks like an AWESOME rework. But don't forget that Taric is a *recommended* champ. Giving this rework would ramp up his difficulty.

Taric is fine the way he is. Very strong tanky support.


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