From a talon player

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Tekshi

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Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangelwurzel View Post
"Faceroll every lane"

tell me the last time talon was used competitively.
Because Solo que = Competitive. This is the most stupid argument in the entire world. What company would solely base an entire game around .0001% of the player base.


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Insoy

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekshi View Post
Wait what is your reason for thinking the talon nerfs are unjustified again?

Because you aren't facerolling every lane and actually have a few tough match ups?

For every competent player you go against, you could go against an uncompetent player and just continue to snowball the lane then gank every other lane and they can't do anything to stop you. And even in the case of competent players, if you get a single good gank or kill you auto snowball/win the lane also.
That's the whole point of talon, to snowball. But snowball games don't happen often and I don't play normal games that just allow me to do what you speak of on a whim. If I was as successful as you say I was, I wouldn't mind this then now would I? I just don't think nerfing talon and riven is the solution and to give back some of new BC's power. What kind of balancing is that?


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Hunger Beast

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Talon is one of my favorite champs in all of League and I have to say you should have nerfed the item (Black Cleaver) not the champ.

You may think 40 damage is not that much but since it hits 2 times, late game that's going to be just enough for the opponent to escape and live.

I mean sure, go ahead and nerf him as much as needed, I'll still play him, but it just seems to me.....very unnecessary especially as only he is being singled out when very obvious counters in the form of armor/health and Oracles Elixir exist.


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Digitalon

Senior Member

12-20-2012

I think it is good to remind everyone that we have seen A LOT of senseless nerfs hit the PBE that never make it to the live servers, lets just hope this change happens to be one of those changes and not the kind that some how make it to live.


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Reedonidas

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Riot doesn't care if champions are viable. There are like 20 non-viable champions right now.


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Insoy

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekshi View Post
Because Solo que = Competitive. This is the most stupid argument in the entire world. What company would solely base an entire game around .0001% of the player base.
Not about that.. it's about catering to casual who can't understand an anti carry's job. See my S2 rank talon stats, I did fine and no one complained. But in S3 it's the No #1 problem and Riot is hitting the wrong spot about this balancing issue.


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Saah

Senior Member

12-20-2012

For one who's loved Talon since the first game playing as him, i can say that Talon is not nerf-reliant. Talon by himself is not the issue, but rather the Black Cleaver, which is actually getting buffs this coming patch, where Talon is getting nerfed.

Everyone complains of Talon being too hard to deal with when playing as an AP caster. Well no duh. That's Talon's job. He's an Anti-Caster, and a damn good one in the right hands. Want to know a simple way of countering Talon? Switch your AP with your toplaner. Done. Talon either doesn't do anything early/mid game, or he wastes time switching lanes, losing farm, and then you switch lanes again on him each time you Recall.

He's not a difficult champion to deal with, people are just too blind to the obvious to notice it. Black Cleaver is the issue, not Talon. If anything, Talon's passive needs either a buff or just a straight up change to it. The bleed talon had on his Q wasn't enough where it would kill a running target that had popped a Health Potion, which is something that happens a lot in early game initiations with him.

Nerfing what they did, they should have at least compensated Talon with what he rightfully deserves. The silence on his E is decent, but a 1-second silence at all five levels is pretty much pointless late game, and early game it's not long enough to completely destroy the enemy immediately. If they scaled that like:
1s at Level 1
1.25s at Level 2
1.5s at Level 3
1.75s at Level 4
2s at Level 5

The silence would then actually be useful late-game in team-fights, where Talon needs to be able to single out his targets. The damage amplification is almost pointless as well until lvl 18, which is when it should be maxed at. If the damage amplification went something like:
Level 1: 5%
Level 2: 7.5%
Level 3: 10%
Level 4: 12.5%
Level 5: 15%

This way, at Level 5, his damage amplification is still 15% like now, but the additional aplification early game would make up for the nerfs done to his Q and R. (With this slight change to the damage amplification, it's not the same amount of damage as before, calculating in the new Q and R damage with this compared to the old Q and R with amplified damage.)

And to be honest, his passive doesn't really do anything. He's got one slow, his W and if you don't hit that immediately when initiating onto someone, his passive is non-existent. There's also the fact that even if you do hit the enemy with his Rake, they are only slowed for 2 seconds, meaning that in the process of this possibly 10-15 second fight or chase, they are only slowed for 2 seconds of it, making his passive non-existent for all but those 2 seconds.


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Insoy

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talonº View Post
For one who's loved Talon since the first game playing as him, i can say that Talon is not nerf-reliant. Talon by himself is not the issue, but rather the Black Cleaver, which is actually getting buffs this coming patch, where Talon is getting nerfed.

Everyone complains of Talon being too hard to deal with when playing as an AP caster. Well no duh. That's Talon's job. He's an Anti-Caster, and a damn good one in the right hands. Want to know a simple way of countering Talon? Switch your AP with your toplaner. Done. Talon either doesn't do anything early/mid game, or he wastes time switching lanes, losing farm, and then you switch lanes again on him each time you Recall.

He's not a difficult champion to deal with, people are just too blind to the obvious to notice it. Black Cleaver is the issue, not Talon. If anything, Talon's passive needs either a buff or just a straight up change to it. The bleed talon had on his Q wasn't enough where it would kill a running target that had popped a Health Potion, which is something that happens a lot in early game initiations with him.

Nerfing what they did, they should have at least compensated Talon with what he rightfully deserves. The silence on his E is decent, but a 1-second silence at all five levels is pretty much pointless late game, and early game it's not long enough to completely destroy the enemy immediately. If they scaled that like:
1s at Level 1
1.25s at Level 2
1.5s at Level 3
1.75s at Level 4
2s at Level 5

The silence would then actually be useful late-game in team-fights, where Talon needs to be able to single out his targets. The damage amplification is almost pointless as well until lvl 18, which is when it should be maxed at. If the damage amplification went something like:
Level 1: 5%
Level 2: 7.5%
Level 3: 10%
Level 4: 12.5%
Level 5: 15%

This way, at Level 5, his damage amplification is still 15% like now, but the additional aplification early game would make up for the nerfs done to his Q and R. (With this slight change to the damage amplification, it's not the same amount of damage as before, calculating in the new Q and R damage with this compared to the old Q and R with amplified damage.)

And to be honest, his passive doesn't really do anything. He's got one slow, his W and if you don't hit that immediately when initiating onto someone, his passive is non-existent. There's also the fact that even if you do hit the enemy with his Rake, they are only slowed for 2 seconds, meaning that in the process of this possibly 10-15 second fight or chase, they are only slowed for 2 seconds of it, making his passive non-existent for all but those 2 seconds.
Oh yea that passive is kinda useless till u get some items.. lewl.. and they nerf him.. I forget he has no active passive but that mini dmg
I forget to include that..
That's how bad of a passive it is.


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Tekshi

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Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insoy View Post
That's the whole point of talon, to snowball. But snowball games don't happen often and I don't play normal games that just allow me to do what you speak of on a whim. If I was as successful as you say I was, I wouldn't mind this then now would I? I just don't think nerfing talon and riven is the solution and to give back some of new BC's power. What kind of balancing is that?
I snowball all the time at the elo i'm at so I don't know what you're talking about. Also you get 10+ kills on average. That's considered pretty snowballey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insoy View Post
Not about that.. it's about catering to casual who can't understand an anti carry's job. See my S2 rank talon stats, I did fine and no one complained. But in S3 it's the No #1 problem and Riot is hitting the wrong spot about this balancing issue.
They would have to remove black cleaver entirely or make it an essentially worthless item before Talon would be okay.


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Thane Soren

Recruiter

12-20-2012

WTF RlOT STOP THIS S*IT