@Morello, can you explain the design philosophy used for nerfing champions?

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cruxshadows

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Statikk might be posting more, but let me update on the details that are concerning in a TLDR sense;

Rengar: We need to tear him down a bit to build him back up - someone earlier in this thread mentioned that he has too many things to be both balanced and fun, and that's the same problem we detect. There will be additional changes next patch.
can i have you test somthing internally undo the last nerfs and go from 5 Ferocity to say 7. the issue here is that after going inhanced its to easy to get back to 4. in lane just q>w>e and q and you ready for the bust kill a raise of ferocity will slow the kill combo down


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cerulean Laser

Senior Member

12-19-2012

I want to see some Fiora changes so more summoners will have more of a reason to chose her over other champions.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

rathy Aro

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Poppy Blue Yordle needs rework badly
I question this, because I have a had a good amount of success with jungle Poppy. I know I'm not high elo or anything, but just by looking at her kit it should be obvious what the strengths and weaknesses are. Personally I think its ok for a champion to have an extremely powerful ult and have a weaker early game, because it forces teams to actually invest some kind of effort to getting to that amazing late game. I just get the feeling that if you guys rework her, you will almost definitely nerf her ult hard to make her laning phase more acceptable by current top standards. I wouldn't like that personally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Tryndamere A little on the synergy problem, but mostly this is about melee AD. Tryn's kit would e most likely to be good if melee AD were usable.
I have a question about melee carries. How exactly do you envision they should work? What role are they supposed to play in team fights? Hunt down the enemy carries like Jax? or shred tanks? Who should they counter and who should they lose to?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Boltas

Member

12-19-2012

Hey guys I was just wondering if Kassadin's Riftwalk (R) + backwards Force Pulse (Q) combo bug has been re-fixed, I experienced this bug during last free week rotation. I was looking forward to purchase him but realized how unplayable he is with the current bug.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Arcticfury

Senior Member

12-19-2012

@Morello,

Why is it that you only seem to post in a thread for one day and then no more? I've responded to the orb proximity issue which you previously stated you didn't believe. Page 47 of this thread. They don't go off when you auto attack a jungle creep or most champs, anything that has a decent hit box. This needs fixed and needs more attention than you doubt it. Doubt all you want, log in and press W walk up to golems and watch them not explode. The larger golem caused me more grief than the smaller, but that may be because you can tear the smaller one down quickly and the orbs not exploding weren't noticed.

After that explain why her small pull was made smaller, if you don't ult onto a champ and press E right away you basically have no pull.

Her Ult's range is depressing as you need it to jungle as well as chase down runners. Slowing Q and reducing damage are enough, her range was fine, she was an assassin, she should have been left an assassin. There is no reason I should have to hit Q, then flash and ult in order to ult, Q and Ult are the combo that's needed. Her ult does too little damage to have a reduced range, it's not like Darius' ult that does tons of damage, it's a chase mechanic with a small bit of damage not a finishing combo that needed nerfed out of play.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Wolf Akela

Junior Member

12-19-2012

I honestly don't see how Warwick doesn't need a bit of help.

He has no presence as a jungler. His Lv6 ganks are still beaten by Maokai because Twisted Advance comes up way more often and only loses by 50 range.

He doesn't exactly have presence in teamfights.

His E very rarely ever helps the team. 99% of the time, it's like he doesn't have an E skill at all.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Yfrappefort

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Sure!

Nasus [I]Unsure - might have fatal flaws, might just be because overtuned metagolems.[/I

Warwick Actually a pretty good jungler here - not too worried.

Poppy Blue Yordle needs rework badly

Tryndamere A little on the synergy problem, but mostly this is about melee AD. Tryn's kit would e most likely to be good if melee AD were usable.

Karma Being reworked

Ashe Unsure. Might need a bit of love, but not a rework.

Jarvan IV Whoa, this guy's a beast right now. I think he has some design flaws, though.

Fiddlesticks Good jungler now for something different.

Veigar Good at being a burst mage, and has 2 ults (R and W). I don't think he's as bad as people make him out to be.

Tristana Likely needs something, unsure though.

Sion Needs rework.
Glad Poppy is gonna be looked at. What about Teemo then? He's never seen in tournaments either. Maybe a rework is needed for him as well?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Darkomantis

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Jax is a fighter, and the distinction is the tools we let him have - things like a stun and beefiness (as well as non-DPS build paths that make sense) make him a fighter. I'm actually worried that by making those guys so good, we can't make glass cannon melee good.
Morello, I think you should reevaluate what fighters role are because lately they have become too strong. Why does a fighter need the same damage output as their damage oriented counterparts, assassins? Aren't they suppose to be in a sense a hybrid of a assassin and tank but doesn't excel at either of them or has to be an off-tank? There is no need to pick a Fiora since Jax has way more survivability and deals almost the same amount damage as her. Before the nerfs, there wouldn't be a reason to pick a Gangplank or Tryndamere since Rengar brought more to the table than them.

I feel there should be a nerf to fighters across the board to not only balance fighters with each other but also bring out the other classes.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MPonder

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunderdase View Post
You press the one stun button and both of these champions are completely useless.
Now, I take it you haven't played DotA, The predecessor and more balanced version of this game with a more serious competitive scene. BUT, In DotA you have both melee and ranged carries working out just fine both being equally good. Most melee carries has blinks but no other hero has flash, How come this is balanced if having a blink in league where everyone has flash wouldn't?
I played Dota since Medusa had tornado. Dude, as far as I remember, I never saw melee carries in competitive play in Dota, it was always 3 top, 1 mid and 1 bottom. The 3 tops were most of the time champions with stuns and tankers, like Leviathan, Centaur, Sven, etc. In bottom and middle there were an ADC like Drow, Sniper or Nevermore, and a mage with CC or pusher.

One reason that melee carries did good in normal games, it was because of the itens like Basher and BKB. And if you think this kind of thing is balanced, I just hope you never work or own Riot. The other reason is because APC. APC at Dota don't scale. Look at Zeus, useless late game, but a **** to deal with early game. Same for Ezalor. And the last reason I can think of, it is the itens, itens scale more in Dota, in LoL, itens make you champions stronger the way he is already, I'm talking about sinergy, like Trinity Force on Irelia/Jax.

Sorry, but something like Void I would never ever want to see in LoL. You think that's balanced, you think Lyncanthrope, SA, and others are balanced. Just put a basher and a satanic on this guys and see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunderdase View Post
He is not a hyper-carry regardless of how many times people say that he is. He does not need items to be effective and does not scale very well with them. He scales with attack speed, attack damage and ability power whilst dealing both magical and physical damage ...
Ok, play a game with just boots and pots. I would comment more about this, but after this, it really doesn't worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunderdase View Post
You should try working on your opinions and making them good because right now you're wrong on all aspects. Not that you had a real point either way, all you basically said was "I don't like them" which is pretty odd seeing as you probably have never played a melee champion. You're one of these guys who complain about stuff being "anti-fun" in a supposedly competitive game. It's not about fun. People play this game as a job, people stream this game as a job.
I could say to you the same.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ScottyRawr

Senior Member

12-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokenerd View Post
Hey Morrello, I was just wondering why when you nerfed zyra that the plants weren't hit at all. In my opinion, the plants were and still are the most overpowered/strongest part of her kit, and kinda similar to yorick gouls. My point is, when you nerfed her ap scaling on q,e,r she transitioned primarily to a support where her plants still did all the damage they did in mid, but didn't take up a ap carry's place in the team. I think the problem with the plants is that the only difference between a rank 1 and rank 5 w is cdr, which means that she has 3 abilities maxed at level 13 & 2 at level 9. i would have liked to see damage scaling in the plants, so that if you wanted the zone control you could max them, but if you wanted burst you could leave it to last. maybe something like (+2/3/4/5/6 per level) with an ap ratio of (+0.08/0.11/0.14/0.17/0.20).


thoughts?
Honestly, her plants have been taking way longer than they used to even attack something for me...I used to play her quite a bit >.<...

Also Morello:

Quote:
Do you plan on changing all these tags the Champions have? Like the Support, Ranged, Jungler (etc.) tags on their Profiles?
Just wondering/curious ^.^ <3

Edit: Thoughts on Sivir also? :3