@Morello, can you explain the design philosophy used for nerfing champions?

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BlargCow

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Senior Member

12-17-2012

what I don't get is why Teemo was nerfed without even giving him a chance to be used in competitive play


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Minishmaster

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mynt View Post
The literal fix to lowering Diana's missile speed is to add an animation delay before it casts. It's not ideal, but gets the job done if tweaking the missile speed is somehow an impossibility.
Animation delays tend to just cause anti-fun situations, ("I pressed the skill before I died, why didn't it go off!" or "I want to chase and kill the enemy, and this ranged skill may kill him, but if I use it I will be unable to chase him due to the cast time")

Really, I liked the diana nerf. I think we need more changes like that. I like having a dynamic game, where the 'best champions' are always shifting. This happened a lot during Season 1, and I think that the reason for that was because FoTM champs lasted for literally a month before seeing some change.
Also, mobility needs a nerf after flash changes left some champions with nothing more than a 400 range blink.


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zerodahero

Senior Member

12-17-2012

My only problem is sometimes you nerf champions so hard we never see them again like Nautilus but you guys allow maokai and skarner to run around in every game for 3 months after nauts nerfs unskarthed


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Fluffy Ahri

Member

12-17-2012

Diana deserved a nerf, but not that big xD

Her win rate decreased from 55-52% to 40


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Mirror

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Right - it's an expectation difference here that I think causes a lot of conflict. I think Kog'Maw is a good example - he's pretty OK (but not omg must pick) in quite a few teams, but if you create a babysit-the-carry comp, he has a unique place in that team and really performs.

I really like this overall as Kog'Maw players can use him effectively, he has weaknesses, but also has a situation he is king in. It lets us use incomparables to balance.

We tend to have an easier time with this on AP and carries, but fighters are tough as we have a lot of baggage on fighters - and a numbr include less gameplay/counter-play overall, making us have less levers to pull. Slowing Diana's Q speed, for example, would give us another gameplay lever, and would allow for bigger high moments and bigger windows of vulnerability.
Do you think with a slower, more skillful Q, you'd be willing to grant Diana her Akali range back? It always strikes me when a champion is nerfed in function rather than numbers - especially when you dial back on the part(s) of the kit that make the reason to play that champion. Like, I don't think anyone's playing Diana because they just really love the Moonfall vacuum or they get really stimulated off a self-refreshing shield.


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Elsaliss

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Could you talk about Irelia a little bit now? She seems to be in a pretty bad position since all her core items were nerfed. What do you think?


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Ralik098

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerodahero View Post
My only problem is sometimes you nerf champions so hard we never see them again like Nautilus but you guys allow maokai and skarner to run around in every game for 3 months after nauts nerfs unskarthed
This

There is nothing worse that nerfing a champion out of viability, never to be seen again. I wish you guys would really do a better job of focusing on this.


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Morello

Lead Designer

12-17-2012
6 of 32 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ́lliad View Post
I might be unique in the fact that I consider every champion playable. I own every champion, and several skins for the "unviable masses"

But is very discouraging when a character or item is overnerfed, and I am saying that as someone who isn't speciallized.

When you guys nerfed Volibear AND Warmog's in the same patch for example.

You just recently gave rengar the same treatment. You guys speed nerfed him and Black Cleaver in the same patch.

Black Cleaver was in itself overnerfed. It should have been made unique and 1 of the passives values lowered, instead, both happened.

There is certain champions, that I love, that I know I don't even have options on. I play them because their kit is fun and interesting (Heimer, Volibear, Karma, Sejuani), not because they are the best champion.

And each time I do I think "Would it REALLY be a balance issue if Sejuani could just lower attack speed?" or "Is it really so hard to lower the mana cost/range of Micro Rockets and let it prioritize champions?"
It's not hard, but, for example, you remove the little gameplay that Heimerdinger's E has already - that skill has almost 0 gameplay associated to it at all. In this case, that would buff the character, but then make us feel bad if he ever was popular. Buffs and nerfs, in my mind, are less important than gameplay patterns and play/counter-play between champions.

ASpd slows have one specific purpose - debuff ADC/some fighter damage. If you want a character to do that, then they should lower attack speed. If you don't, then it's superfluous.


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ThatoneGothGuy

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Again, at this point I'm more out-of-touch with the details on this - I'll see what the guys think, though.
Now for an extremely important question, does one have to hue to be es numero uno? To hue or not to hue.


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VictusOmnis

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Again, at this point I'm more out-of-touch with the details on this - I'll see what the guys think, though.
Thanks Morello.

Hope you guys get lots of cookies for Christmas!