You had to fix Rengar's base Hp/5 since you nerfed W's heal

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Olek Skilgannon

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeigneurLemieux View Post

A little statistic:

Rengar's HP/5 at lvl 18 : 10.8
Riven's hp/5 at lvl ONE: 10.4
Fixed.


Riven doesn't have a way to heal in her kit.
HP5 doesn't really matter too much, if at all late game.

Not saying your point is invalid.


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Dyzmatik

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
Rengar has been a complicated situation.

Our initial approach to the champion was to chip at him until we put him in a good spot. Unfortunately, it turns out there are core mechanics on the kit (ie: % Health based heal, a huge Armor / MR buff, instant stealth) that simply don't fit the gameplay patterns we were trying to create for Rengar...thus we began to gut / remove them.

For example, his stealth duration was nerfed due to the fact that it was instant, but we have now made it non-instant. This leaves his ult feeling more lackluster than ever. The end result is a huge mistake on our part where Rengar is both weak and unsatisfying to play.

Classick and I are currently working on buffing Rengar back into a state where we feel more comfortable with his gameplay. Some of the changes include re-increasing the stealth duration back to create the prowling feel again and adjusting the W heal to be a flat heal based on champion level. We're still working out all of the specifics but we know we took a faulty approach to Rengar's balance for the past few patches.


Here, take away the attack speed buff from Q and put it on and take mr and armor scaling from W to 10/20/30/40/50 to balance out the odd numbers and also increase duration to make him stronger lategame, but weaker earlier.
So, it would be 10/20/30/40/50 mr + armor and 10/20/30/40/50% attack speed for 4 seconds or something.
A rework on empowered W could be 20/40/60/80/100 more MR and armor + 10% heal and take the attack speed buff from Q so add 20/40/60/80/100% extra attack speed making the decision much more decisive for rengar.
Take the great buff or take the damage?

Then, for Q, we give it 1.1 full ad ratio (like Wukong) and has a 1.5 second cooldown after using empowered Q so he can't instantly burst squishies, but allows a more steady damage output. The cooldowns are long, but maybe if we rengar something like ''every basic attack reduces the cooldown of this skill (not counting Savagery itself) by 1 or half a second''

IMO, Bola strike honestly doesn't have any problems except not providing enough slow duration.

and for the ultimate, finally, instead of giving him superior all around stealth, we actually take away the stealth and give him a steriod ult, extra AD, lifesteal, free passive pounce every 2 seconds, 30/45/60% bonus movement speed, and still have the radar and slowly gain ferocity every 1.5 seconds over 8/10/12 seconds.

This setup allows him to be what i'd like to call a ''prowler'', A character that has excellent chasing and dueling capabilities, and can still play the role of an assassin, although not as well as other characters. Even better, this type of rework even fits his lore as the perfect predator

and maybe, just maybe, we buff his passive a tiny bit to something like he gets an extra 10% bonus movement speed when brush camping :3?


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SeigneurLemieux

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olek Skilgannon View Post
Fixed.


Riven doesn't have a way to heal in her kit.
HP5 doesn't really matter too much, if at all late game.

Not saying your point is invalid.
My favourite lane being toplane, I can assure you the best thing I ever did was purchase 3 HP/5 quints for toplane (esp on non-sustain tops, I'm a big fan of J4). Hp/5 on toplane means ALOT.


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RQDora

Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vox Burakkuhoru View Post
Why did it get nurfed in the first place?
Erm...800 gold for an item that gives 25+ ad at level 7 and has insane utility for when they get kills and assists? What I would like to see of rengar:
Passive: Ferocity - When rengar gains ferocity he gains a small flat increase in movement speed. Preferred 5 movement for every stack of fero.

Q: Savage- Change his current passive into an active where he leaps to target and deals damage, nerf the attack speed slightly. This should fix his lost leap based lore.

W: Battle Roar- Change it so instead of dealing damage and increasing only defense, Remove the damage, add a small slow of 10% at all levels, give a % 5-15% prefered of lifesteal and give it a static amount of 20-25 armor and magic resist at all levels. Give half of these bonuses to allies that are inside of the range. (Would have to increase its size like that of Sivir's ulti)

E: Bola strike- Change it from a single target spell into a skill shot that hits only one target. Those hit with it are stunned for a small duration .5-1 second should be fine. Let it still deal the same amount of damage.

R: Thrill of the hunt- I don't like to touch this one but I think it is needed. Give it that fade over time like initially done. Then add a graphic like TF's one of an eye or like Warwicks e to those in his area. Increase the duration of the stealth and give it an aura that his allies receive when nearby. 10% movement speed preferred.

I think these are decent changes to make to him. It would improve his balance changes and allow for team play. Also lock him into a role that I think would be good for him.


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aces2kj

Recruiter

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
Rengar has been a complicated situation.

Our initial approach to the champion was to chip at him until we put him in a good spot. Unfortunately, it turns out there are core mechanics on the kit (ie: % Health based heal, a huge Armor / MR buff, instant stealth) that simply don't fit the gameplay patterns we were trying to create for Rengar...thus we began to gut / remove them.

For example, his stealth duration was nerfed due to the fact that it was instant, but we have now made it non-instant. This leaves his ult feeling more lackluster than ever. The end result is a huge mistake on our part where Rengar is both weak and unsatisfying to play.

Classick and I are currently working on buffing Rengar back into a state where we feel more comfortable with his gameplay. Some of the changes include re-increasing the stealth duration back to create the prowling feel again and adjusting the W heal to be a flat heal based on champion level. We're still working out all of the specifics but we know we took a faulty approach to Rengar's balance for the past few patches.
you guys should look at returning bonetooth neclaces 10 ad back


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SQUATSbrah

Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
Rengar has been a complicated situation.

Our initial approach to the champion was to chip at him until we put him in a good spot. Unfortunately, it turns out there are core mechanics on the kit (ie: % Health based heal, a huge Armor / MR buff, instant stealth) that simply don't fit the gameplay patterns we were trying to create for Rengar...thus we began to gut / remove them.

For example, his stealth duration was nerfed due to the fact that it was instant, but we have now made it non-instant. This leaves his ult feeling more lackluster than ever. The end result is a huge mistake on our part where Rengar is both weak and unsatisfying to play.

Classick and I are currently working on buffing Rengar back into a state where we feel more comfortable with his gameplay. Some of the changes include re-increasing the stealth duration back to create the prowling feel again and adjusting the W heal to be a flat heal based on champion level. We're still working out all of the specifics but we know we took a faulty approach to Rengar's balance for the past few patches.

and that's all you came up with?

...notsureifsrs


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Bagz22

Member

12-20-2012

Oh god guys....look over at Rengar changes on PBE

http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/22...for-12-21-2012

80% of your AD as a heal

God that is horrible! you need atleast 300 AD to get even close to what it is now

Riot! why u hate rengar?


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MrMisterblue

Senior Member

12-20-2012

they nerfed riven's hp/5 after this. THanks op, asking to nerf riven's hp/5


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SeigneurLemieux

Senior Member

12-21-2012

I doubt my thread was the only reason behind the still-in-beta change of riven's hp/5 :P

PBE changes are often more drastic than patch notes.


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IIIIII

Junior Member

01-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
Rengar has been a complicated situation.

Our initial approach to the champion was to chip at him until we put him in a good spot. Unfortunately, it turns out there are core mechanics on the kit (ie: % Health based heal, a huge Armor / MR buff, instant stealth) that simply don't fit the gameplay patterns we were trying to create for Rengar...thus we began to gut / remove them.

For example, his stealth duration was nerfed due to the fact that it was instant, but we have now made it non-instant. This leaves his ult feeling more lackluster than ever. The end result is a huge mistake on our part where Rengar is both weak and unsatisfying to play.

Classick and I are currently working on buffing Rengar back into a state where we feel more comfortable with his gameplay. Some of the changes include re-increasing the stealth duration back to create the prowling feel again and adjusting the W heal to be a flat heal based on champion level. We're still working out all of the specifics but we know we took a faulty approach to Rengar's balance for the past few patches.
IMO you should remove the fade time for Rengar's ulti and keep the heal at 15%. In theory the 15% maximum hp heal is "op" but if you are losing lane that is the only skill in Rengar's kit helping him survive.

For example if Rengar is fighting with a strong duelist like Jax, Xin Zhao, Fiora etc. and was losing lane, also assuming that the enemy player is constantly harassing as he goes in to "E" creeps, he would have pretty much no chance of winning the lane whatsoever. So even though his "W" may seem op; put in a realistic situation he would rarely have a chance of using heal more than 1 time every creep wave or won't even reach 5 rage before he has to either back or dies.

All I have to complain about for his ulti is the new fade time and "push back" of 3 seconds. First of all it is an ulti, why would it be worse than any other invisibility skill? You can't even escape during a fight with it anymore, considering that if you are running away that you would probably have somewhat low hp.

And finally, Rengar just feels completely weak right now. I used to enjoy death matches with Kha'zix players at top lane, which ended up with both of us dying, or one of us ending up on top with barely any hp; but now after about 6-8 nerfs, I can't even bring him down to half hp without dying or having to back off, even around minions I can barely fight a low hp Kha'zix.

I just want Rengar to become a duelist comparable to Kha'zix at least, seeing that their lores state that they are pretty much even in terms of fighting. All this is coming from someone who has played Rengar upon release.