ArP Runes > All?

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Apolloco

Member

10-12-2010

Hey guys, I've seen people always run ArP instead of lets say crit dmg/atk speed as in marks/quints. Maybe you can win early game and not have enough for a Phantom Dancer/IE for the crit dmg/atk speed runes to be used really well so does ArP generally be the best for both marks+quints? Also, if anybody could share, what kind of seals/glyphs would you run on lets say trist/ashe/yi?

Edit: while looking at some good players rune pages they seem to get movement speed quints? is 1.5% movement speed much better than 3.91 armor pen for quints?


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Kroghar

Senior Member

10-12-2010

I'm by no means a pro, but I've seen the list someone did with all the numbers. He pretty much broke it down which runes give you the best bang for the buck. Since every champ has a certain amount of Armor and Magic Resist, Armor Pen and Magic Pen give you a straight damage boost extremely early, and it's much more dependable than crit damage.

There are exceptions to everything though, certain champs with certain builds can run different runes. Like Crit Chance on Tryndamere for example, or Akali pretty much requires her own complete rune page to play effectively.

As for Quints, seems like 80% of people go with straight health quints for the early game survivability, some people prefer the Movement Speed, both are great options. Again there are exceptions, seen Akali go Damage Quints to get her passive to proc for early game jungling, or Crit Percentage Quints on Tryn sometimes Mundo.

In most cases I think people tend to get Runes that will benefit the most champs at once, unless they've been playing since beta and actually have tons of rune pages and full sets of every rune.


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JoeDuo

Senior Member

10-12-2010

Armor Pen Marks are the most effective runes by far.
You should always pick them unless:
1. The vast majority of your damage is magical.
2. You'll be able to lower your target's armor to zero without them. (Don't count on this against decent players.)
3. You'll be buying a Last Whisper. (At this point they just as good as the other good physical marks.)


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Apolloco

Member

10-13-2010

imo all DPS champions should buy phantom dancer, and with that you have 30% crit right there which is pretty high but as Kroghar said, most people tend to get runes that will benefit the most champs at once. I agree w/ that but i just don't know which ones I would need. I think it'd come down to ArP or crit dmg...anybody can maybe, just explain why either or would be better? If not then I guess I will just buy ArP, crit dmg is so nice on shaco and i like to laugh at 800 crit dmg w/ deceive+sheen on a squishy.


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Warrrax

Senior Member

10-14-2010

Crit Damage is pretty bad simply because it requires getting a crit.

A level 1 quint does +2.5% damage. Early game with a 0% crit chance, it does nothing.
At 30% crit, it equals about .75% overall damage.

Even with a 50% crit rate(!) it is only +1.25% overall damage.

In comparison, a 1.03% crit chance rune increases your overall damage by 1.03% right at level 1 and throughout the game, independent of your item set, except for Infinities which boosts it.

So for the large majority of characters, crit chance is quite a bit better than crit damage.


Course then you look at the 2.1 points of armor penetration you could have. If they start with 30 armor, a 100 damage attack does um...77 damage. With 28 armor it would do er...78.2 damage instead. That is a boost of 1.01% overall damage.

Its about the same as the +crit chance except less bursty. However, this is for a Quint. A mark is 1.09 penetration vs .52 crit chance which is a slightly better ratio.


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Eppa

Senior Member

10-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrax View Post
Crit Damage is pretty bad simply because it requires getting a crit.

A level 1 quint does +2.5% damage. Early game with a 0% crit chance, it does nothing.
At 30% crit, it equals about .75% overall damage.

Even with a 50% crit rate(!) it is only +1.25% overall damage.

In comparison, a 1.03% crit chance rune increases your overall damage by 1.03% right at level 1 and throughout the game, independent of your item set, except for Infinities which boosts it.

So for the large majority of characters, crit chance is quite a bit better than crit damage.


Course then you look at the 2.1 points of armor penetration you could have. If they start with 30 armor, a 100 damage attack does um...77 damage. With 28 armor it would do er...78.2 damage instead. That is a boost of 1.01% overall damage.

Its about the same as the +crit chance except less bursty. However, this is for a Quint. A mark is 1.09 penetration vs .52 crit chance which is a slightly better ratio.
Something to note is the closer you get to 0 the better each point of arpen is, so if you should compare them compare the sum of all arpen marks if you want to compare them with crit.


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JohnCataldo

Senior Member

10-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eppa View Post
Something to note is the closer you get to 0 the better each point of arpen is, so if you should compare them compare the sum of all arpen marks if you want to compare them with crit.
This isn't true. If you are looking at how many hits it take to kill a champion, armor is linear.

Assuming all damage is physical, someone with 2000 health (pretty common) gains 20 effective health with each point of armor. It doesn't matter how much armor they have.

Let's say you hit for exactly 100 damage. Every 5 armor any 2000 health champion has forces you to hit that guy exactly one more time. It doesn't matter how much armor or armor pen you have (as long as you aren't reducing below 0!)


People seem to want to think about armor as percentages of health or something weird like that, but in terms of how much damage you need to dish out it's linear. i.e. if you have 100 armor and 2000 health, that's like 4000 health, so adding another 100 armor 'only' brings you to 6000 health -- instead of doubling your health, you've only added 50% more! But that makes no sense -- you are still adding exactly as much effective health.