Kha'zix, OP, UP or Balanced?

Overpowered 16 19.75%
Underpowered 17 20.99%
Balanced 48 59.26%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

Kha'Zix, OP or UP?

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Fonzworth

Junior Member

12-10-2012

I love Kha'zix. I think he is a spectacular designed champion with high-risk, high-reward play and his kit is awesome. As I first bought and played him, I found him to be a very difficult champion to play (only reason I played him was because I bought the bundle), but now I find he can scale really well in a game. I only play him top and he's still a relatively new champion that does require some skill in order to expose his assassin like abilities and his hidden passive with Rengar is a great addition to everything else.

My main question is here, from your experience, and I'm talking about multiple games with him and not just that one game you played him during "free week", do you guys think he is OP, UP or fine the way he is? Why?

There are obviously things I would change but I'd love to hear everyone else's feedback! Thanks for taking the time to post!

Happy Holidays,
Fonzworth


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Jamaree

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Senior Member

12-10-2012

I think he sits at a nice little "balanced" niche, high burst, but high risk end game.


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AstralVoid

Junior Member

12-10-2012

I think he sits at balanced, if not a little bit underpowered, but that's mainly due to the nature of the current tanky as hell meta.

He thrives on good positioning and catching people alone in an ambush, but his ability to catch people diminishes greatly if the team is even half competent with warding. His laning feels a bit weak until you get something to counter your early game mana issues, and he ends up feeling like a skillshot champion, where people can simply dodge behind creeps to ensure that they don't take full damage from your Q.

Overall, I like him as an assassin, and feel his mechanics are interesting to say the least, but with his lack of durability he often ends up as a liability in teamfights late game, since he has to get in close to do most of his damage, and you have to heavily balance "can I stand to do more damage" against "can I stand to live two seconds longer when everyone focuses me." Rengar can do the burst people down thing while being in peoples' faces without needing to build a whole lot in terms of damage, and a similar build doesn't yield nearly the results on a Kha'zix.

Who knows, maybe the meta will shift a bit with the new jungle and itemization changes.


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Horus Communer

Senior Member

12-10-2012

his ranged thing huuuuuurts
He is quite balanced in my opinion, I played against him with Darius, also considered OP/UP, and while he stomped me early game, I stomped him mid game, and we were both okay in late.


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deadlychuck

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Senior Member

12-10-2012

here is how i look at it, kha'zix and rengar are considered "balanced" i normally play the under dog type champs that tend to be on the higher skill requirement to play successfully (either just harder or actually UP), trundle, karma, sejuani, exc. I bought rengar on 12/10/12 as of 12/11/12 here are the results of my first 8 games
13/4/20 (win)
10/9/11 (win)
21/7/5 (loss) <-- was 21/1 then my team fell apart
9/5/10 (win)
9/11/10 (loss) <-- ok a bad game
15/5/12 (win)
5/9/5 (loss) 3v3 diana, teemo, riven ... so basically no way to win that one :P
16/8/13 (win) 3v3

my point is that while they nerfed rengar's numbers and he is now considered "balanced" or even UP... but having played him he is still OP as hell. I understand it's hard to change how a champion plays once it's already been developed and put into play, but you cant just reduce a few #s and call a champ balanced. utility, skill set, and #s are what affect balance. For example there is no reason for rengar's passive to have no CD, and calling it "Unseen Predator" is miss leading because even if you are in the bush with him or it's warded it still activates.

Riot has either done 1 of 3 things
1) Started shifting the average power of champions higher
2) Changed how they make champion's OP to get more sales
3) They've released so many champs it's impossible to balance anymore

hints the common demand for teemo, diana, kha' zix, darius, rengar. some of them are justified while others arn't but note that 4/5 of those have been released in only the past few months. (teemo just breaks rules and doesn't care)
Then you look at other champs such as TF, Nasus, Sion, who are stuck in a weird area where they are rarely touched that much balance wise, They do have situational uses, but they are very few and far between, meaning they don't get played very often.

While there need to be counter picks, the best way to tell who the UP, balanced, and OP champs are is to just play blind pick. What champs are in almost every game (teemo, blitz, darius) and those tend to be OP champs. What champs are played kind of randomly (most champs are in this area) and those are the more balanced ones. What champs are only see once in a blue moon (karma, trundle, sejuani) and those tend to be the UP ones.

Although there are always the outliers, though only in one directions, (such as rengar) who for some reason or another are very uncommon, or random but still OP. The reason you don't see any UP champs getting played constantly is normally because how many people would willingly put themselves at a disadvantage.

Riot obviously has the #s to tell what champs are being played most commonly, which i'd love to have some kind of automated updating list on that, so i'm sure they work with much more information than the community when it comes to balance.

RANT OVER

Btw i feel he is OP, but only because of his skill set


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H0p0nP0p

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlychuck View Post
here is how i look at it, kha'zix and rengar are considered "balanced" i normally play the under dog type champs that tend to be on the higher skill requirement to play successfully (either just harder or actually UP), trundle, karma, sejuani, exc. I bought rengar on 12/10/12 as of 12/11/12 here are the results of my first 8 games
13/4/20 (win)
10/9/11 (win)
21/7/5 (loss) <-- was 21/1 then my team fell apart
9/5/10 (win)
9/11/10 (loss) <-- ok a bad game
15/5/12 (win)
5/9/5 (loss) 3v3 diana, teemo, riven ... so basically no way to win that one :P
16/8/13 (win) 3v3

my point is that while they nerfed rengar's numbers and he is now considered "balanced" or even UP... but having played him he is still OP as hell. I understand it's hard to change how a champion plays once it's already been developed and put into play, but you cant just reduce a few #s and call a champ balanced. utility, skill set, and #s are what affect balance. For example there is no reason for rengar's passive to have no CD, and calling it "Unseen Predator" is miss leading because even if you are in the bush with him or it's warded it still activates.

Riot has either done 1 of 3 things
1) Started shifting the average power of champions higher
2) Changed how they make champion's OP to get more sales
3) They've released so many champs it's impossible to balance anymore

hints the common demand for teemo, diana, kha' zix, darius, rengar. some of them are justified while others arn't but note that 4/5 of those have been released in only the past few months. (teemo just breaks rules and doesn't care)
Then you look at other champs such as TF, Nasus, Sion, who are stuck in a weird area where they are rarely touched that much balance wise, They do have situational uses, but they are very few and far between, meaning they don't get played very often.

While there need to be counter picks, the best way to tell who the UP, balanced, and OP champs are is to just play blind pick. What champs are in almost every game (teemo, blitz, darius) and those tend to be OP champs. What champs are played kind of randomly (most champs are in this area) and those are the more balanced ones. What champs are only see once in a blue moon (karma, trundle, sejuani) and those tend to be the UP ones.

Although there are always the outliers, though only in one directions, (such as rengar) who for some reason or another are very uncommon, or random but still OP. The reason you don't see any UP champs getting played constantly is normally because how many people would willingly put themselves at a disadvantage.

Riot obviously has the #s to tell what champs are being played most commonly, which i'd love to have some kind of automated updating list on that, so i'm sure they work with much more information than the community when it comes to balance.

RANT OVER

Btw i feel he is OP, but only because of his skill set
Where's the tldr?? I stopped halfway due to the fact that u were discussing about RENGAR and not kha'zix... I dont even know who ur talking bout thats op down there =S

Imo kha'zix kit is good except for that weaksauce spray thingy and his dumb passive that can be negated easily. Spray helps him soo little in a gank as a jungler and end game is one of the poopiest skills. Considering most op junglers got really strong high result single shot cc (naut/lee/ali/xin/rengar...) or big aoe clinch cc (amumu/shyvana/darius/shen/malphite). The skill is a super slow projectile skillshot.

TL: DR
Underpowered becaus he's got only 3 abilities to use. The other two can b improved.


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deadlychuck

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Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by H0p0nP0p View Post
Where's the tldr?? I stopped halfway due to the fact that u were discussing about RENGAR and not kha'zix... I dont even know who ur talking bout thats op down there =S

Imo kha'zix kit is good except for that weaksauce spray thingy and his dumb passive that can be negated easily. Spray helps him soo little in a gank as a jungler and end game is one of the poopiest skills. Considering most op junglers got really strong high result single shot cc (naut/lee/ali/xin/rengar...) or big aoe clinch cc (amumu/shyvana/darius/shen/malphite). The skill is a super slow projectile skillshot.

TL: DR
Underpowered becaus he's got only 3 abilities to use. The other two can b improved.
It's more about UP/OP in general although Rengar and Kha' Zix do have a fairly substantial hidden passive so if they are of equal power normally then there could be an issue. Though i do agree that his passive is out of character and not very good.


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Faerous

Member

12-11-2012

I think he's in a pretty good place. I don't understand why anyone would complain about his W. Once you evolve it, it becomes an initiate/nuke/minor sustain.

Let's pretend I jump the bandwagon and build a bunch of bloodthirsters and black cleavers.
Let's assume my end bonus damage is ~350.

I understand this is assuming a lot of things about the game, but:

Jump in and deal ~500 damage.
Spray some AoE spikes for 800 damage + slow. [This includes passive.]
Ult, then "Q" - We'll assume the target is isolated since that's your job: 1600. [Taking into account the 12% of 1300 dealt so far.]
Now ult, and Q again. Target should be dead, or nearly dead.

This doesn't factor in MR, Armor, etc. But you can see how in OPTIMAL situations, he performs his job very well.

Presently, in team fights I'll either wait for an opening to jump in, kill, jump out, or harass with my W+passive. Repeatedly doing 800+slow on the enemy team in a wide AoE can do wonders, though you need to keep a good stock of your mana reserves if you expect to get any kills or survive a sudden initiate + gank.


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Bees

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by H0p0nP0p View Post
Where's the tldr?? I stopped halfway due to the fact that u were discussing about RENGAR and not kha'zix... I dont even know who ur talking bout thats op down there =S

Imo kha'zix kit is good except for that weaksauce spray thingy and his dumb passive that can be negated easily. Spray helps him soo little in a gank as a jungler and end game is one of the poopiest skills. Considering most op junglers got really strong high result single shot cc (naut/lee/ali/xin/rengar...) or big aoe clinch cc (amumu/shyvana/darius/shen/malphite). The skill is a super slow projectile skillshot.

TL: DR
Underpowered becaus he's got only 3 abilities to use. The other two can b improved.
I can summarize his post. He went 5:3 W:L with rengar, and justified each loss so Rengar is still OP. Then he talks a lot about how the more popular a champion is the more powerful they are. Then he says he doesn't know how to look up popularity stats, and ends it saying the Kha'zix kit is OP.


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XxXFrostQueenXxX

Senior Member

12-12-2012

idk if he is up or balanced when you can do lb ulti with a tri force and a q as a melee champ that has a huge ass jump that refreshes on kill(which is not very hard jump on them q w aa and if they are not dead then they stacked alot of hp and armor) im not sure how its balanced


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