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Vi, the Piltover Enforcer - Feedback Thread

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Taikero

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Restitution:
Frozen Fist? That's total waste dawg, either get Frozen Mallet or Tri-Force. I personally like getting brutalizer phage for her early game and building a triforce out of the phage while nagging a tabi/zerkers somewhere in there and then start building a zephyr into mid game. Gives you a nice mix of defensive and offensive stats, gives you a whopping 520ish passive mvmt speed, and sets you up for a nice transition into a tanky late game


I'll agree with you that Frozen Fist is a waste.

Triforce is also suboptimal compared to Frozen Mallet, however.

Nothing is wasted or undesirable on Frozen Mallet. Triforce's AP is wasted and the slow is unreliable, and you get far less health for her passive. Triforce on Vi is a mistake, even if not a huge one, and it's for the same reasons that Frozen Fist is a waste.


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Taikero

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Spiku:
I am curious as to why you feel Frozen Fist is a waste, so much so to downvote, dawg. Certainly in lane vs other Vi's it has consistantly won top lane just by allowing me to sustain longer and have cooldowns up more; in team situations I can lay down a consistent aoe slow as well as the armour shred; allowing me to add utility into my removing of a single targert that allows the rest of the team to stick

I've found that, while I used Trinity in my early days of playing Vi, I migrated away from it entirely as I found that either:
A) reliable sticky from Frozen Mallet beat the overall bonus in trinity
B) the amount spent in trinity detracted from monies placed in, say, brutalizer or soft items
C) I would rather have higher personal sustain to win the lane.


Instead of building Frozen Fist, build Ionian Boots of Lucidity, Phage, and Brutalizer early, then push for Mallet and Cleaver and Zephyr (Tiamat into Hydra is great too).

With Ionian, Cleaver, and Zephyr, you're running 39% CDR with Tenacity, and Mallet gives you 40% slow and tons of health for her passive.

Frozen Fist is great until you realize you spent a ton of gold on an AP item with some armor and CDR, when you could have just gone with an Atma's Impaler build if you needed armor that badly.


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FlutterShen

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
BlueJusticee:
Removing denting blows from her ULTY doesn't make sense to me. Shes still punching people with her huge hextech fists right? SO hard its taking them off the ground. It's also her Ultimate right? If anything, it should proc it twice (im not really suggesting that, just making a point). It doesn't make sense. Definitly lower something else.

I'd hit her W. In what way depends on the direction you developers are choosing for your game. Follow me a second.

Top laners, season 2 seemed to build tanky, and relied from base dmg values on their kits. Champions like Elise, Darius, Rengar, Olaf ( my perspective could be wrong). If it stays the oldschool way of building tanky I'd rather you nerf the scaling W ratio because she won't be building much AD anyways to remain viable for competition.

On the other hand, this season, you guys made armor harder to come by, armor reduction easier to get, and changed the way penetration is calculated... So is this a new direction for your game? Go Go offence? If so, and your trying to put a focus on offence then i guess id prefer you to nerf the base damage so we could make up for it later after we have some offencive items.

Please dont hurt E anymore regardless of the direction of the game.

This is just my oppinion, and i've only played for a few months but with all that said.

Would she still be viable if you nerfed her base values? Outside of her shield she has no built in sustain, E range has been nerfed (twice?) making poking riskier, and Q is really not a reliable tool to fight with or, to escape a gank with top lane. Lowering her base values so she does less early game dmg might be too much, I dunno dude, im not a developer lol. Maybe it will be great ! Thats what i got.


I agree. E is perfect, don't touch it! As for her ultimate... It's kind of an ULTIMATE, he's right.

Also, are we sure that she's really as OP as people are saying? Maybe Devs are getting too much feedback.


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Spiku

Senior Member

12-13-2012

It's that unreliable slow that means I could never go back to trinity. But I already do brutalizer + phage as core builds into their upgrades. However, I couldn't see myself going for Hydra if I was going into lifesteal, equally I'd rather cap a defensive item at the point you are referring to having so many items; so I can provide more team stay. I'd rather end the game long before I can make these many thousand builds

The thing is with what you list there nothing makes up for the utility gained in the aoe slow placed on Frozen Fist, and the damage gains from having a minimum of 4 procs in an initial engage; it's not just an AP item; and even then it all applies to the E. It's precisely against brutalizer + phage Vi's that Frozen Fist wins out against. While I would never take Frozen Fist in a game that wasn't heavy AD enemies, I'll take it a thousand times over trinity force for stickiness and bonus burst


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MasterEvilAce

Senior Member

12-13-2012

I feel like Vi should have a special interaction with enemy champion ultimates, just because of her attitude.

If any enemy champion uses an ultimate on her with low health, and she doesn't die by the time the effects wear off, she'll have a one-liner, or just laugh.

For instance: Vi has 400 health, Caitlyn uses her ultimate on Vi, bringing her down to a "critical level" such as 50 HP... after any damaging effects wears off (red buff, etc), she'll go, "Not even close, baby!" or laugh.

Making this work with any ultimate would be awesome, and can be implemented in future champions, similarly to the recall animation. You'd want to wait until any DOT effects have worn off, to guarantee she won't die... otherwise the taunt would be premature. If you wanted to instance to be more rare, you could have her say it only after "barely" surviving, and starting to recall back to base.


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Plaguesage

Junior Member

12-13-2012

Personally she is fun to play with and lane with. Never played against her yet but I found her to be perfect as she is now. Of course her Q is fairly powerful so I can see that getting toned down slightly but other than that I think she is fine.


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Hiphoppopatomus

Junior Member

12-13-2012

So.. My amateur opinion is that Vi's W does too much.
I have no problem with her having all of these things, but all on one skill seems a bit much.
For example the armor penetration could be moved to her Q, forcing her to decide whether she wants to use it for a major damage stimulus or save her Q to escape unfavorable situations.
Plus, her Q is like a rocket PAUNCH, that should definitely have armor shred. Though I suppose denting blows wouldn't dent much if they didn't armor shred.

But seriously, Attack Speed, Armor Shred, AND % Health damage, all in one seems a bit much.

Overall I LOVEEE her kit though, she is so freaking fun and cool.


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bac357

Junior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
gypsylord:
Patch notes:

W:
Reduced AD scaling to 1% per 35 AD (down from 1% per 30AD)

R:
Reduced base damage to 200/325/450 (down from 200/350/500)
R no longer applies denting blows.

So the nerf I'm guessing you guys are noticing the most is the removal of the denting blows stack on R. From a gameplay standpoint I really dislike this change. It majorly cuts into Vi's flow and combo feel. From a balance standpoint however we think it may be necessary as a way to tone down Vi's burst damage (WHICH WAS INSANELY HIGH) without having to make the bases on her W, E or R feel awful on their own. The reason she's bursting so hard right now is her ult basically guarantees that she will instantly proc denting blows. The combo is R, auto, E+W proc, Q, auto, E+W proc. That's a HUGE amount of burst. Removing the denting blows from the ult seems to solve this.

The question I have for you guys is this:
How unfun is it having denting blows removed from the ult? Do you want it back? If so, what would be a better feeling way to nerf Vi's burst in place of this change? Should we hit W base damage? W AD ratio? E damage? Base AD? What do you guys think?

When will Vi come out in the actual game?


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doombotMECHA

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Secretbeef:
A CC focused champ!

Huge issue with two way streets here.

You guys didnt give Leona damage because of amounts of CC, Yet you gave Nautilus quite a bit of damage with lots of CC.

What path shall you take with this obvious Tanky DPS??

naut's cc is actually not the best in the game after the first rotation. you really can't hit anyone with anything once you're both moving and q's on CD....even R isn't going to affect your relative position, thanks to the cast time


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Onuris22

Junior Member

12-13-2012

Punch first, give feedback while punching!

Vi's great, I crank up a bunch of Street Fighter and Mega Man 8-bit music while I'm playing her to jam out and kill people. Her splash art and base skin are AMAZING and detailed, with her voice acting and lines being probably the best I've run across on a character quality and personality wise. I'm not sure what you're going to do for her second skin, but I do hope it's better then that Racer Vi (or whatever you end up calling it,) since that just seems rather...dull. Could be cause it's not finished, but what I got to see of it that's what I feel.

As for...

Quote:
The question I have for you guys is this:
How unfun is it having denting blows removed from the ult? Do you want it back? If so, what would be a better feeling way to nerf Vi's burst in place of this change? Should we hit W base damage? W AD ratio? E damage? Base AD? What do you guys think?


Honestly, I didn't notice it originally when it got removed (her damage does drop, but her burst was REALLY high). I feel that having a full stack of Denting Blows on her ult doesn't matter either way that I can feel as an issue. I generally already have my target debuffed, or can hit fast enough that it's up quickly anyway. I tend to use her ult as a gap closer on dangerous ranged once I've built at least a Phage, and only when an enemy is low or threatening an ally. Maybe having it apply one stack of the Denting Blows debuff (first stack in the three needed to obtain the full debuff,) might help slightly without giving her the bonus of so much burst from the debuff.

A good trade off might also be giving her a .5 or 1 second slow once they land, but that might be something that isn't really needed due to Frozen Mallet. Could toy with the idea of giving it a bonus once you have Denting Blows on the target, but I think it's pretty good as is.

Also, Tank Girl, Tron, or Steampunk skins please