Ezreal and Season 3 : A step in the right direction...

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Auryiel

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12-05-2012

But it's not enough :\

(incoming wall of text)

EDIT: Btw, if you want to help bring some attention to AP Ezreal, Kades (a red) told we the guys we should talk to are reds with ''Live designer'' in their forum title OR reds who work on the live team. Examples would be SmashGimzo, Scarizard and Xypherous, who all work on the live team.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...91924#35291924

WARNING: Please don't mistake my enthusiasm for a negative attitude. I really want to have a discussion about this. If all you have to say is ''Not gonna happen'' please at least consider taking the time to really explain why, because honestly I don't understand it.

I know AP Ezreal is not a priority, it's an off-build that isn't really taken into consideration when balancing Ezreal (yes, the W AP ratio buff was appreciated, but if you really gave more thought about AP Ezreal, I honestly believe you would have buffed him more, considering the humongous nerfs he received). I know there are certain things that will not be changed about him (like E targeting champions, although to be honest I don't want that), but I do believe there are changes you can implement that will affect only AP Ezreal and that will not buff AD Ezreal in any reasonable way.

I have a few suggestions, but first I need to get something off my chest : I really think you guys could have fixed AP Ezreal a LONG time ago with some changes proposed by the community, but you won't simply because you think it will overcomplicate the champion. That's REALLY disappointing coming from the guys who made champions like Elise and Jayce. Yes, I understand that there is a difference between a champion that's complicated to play to its maximum potential and a champion that might be complicated to play against, but honestly I don't really see how what I have in mind is so damn complicated. At some point you have to stop thinking we are all 10 years old who can't make the difference between someone that's building AP and someone that's building AD.

IMPORTANT : All numbers suggested are just there to make it easier to understand. I don't claim to have any ability to balance the game, I'm just passionate about AP Ezreal and I have a few suggestions to try and make him balanced.


Rising Spellforce

Aside from taking down towers, AP Ezreal has no passive. The community already had many ideas on how to fix this, but of course this would have to be done in a way that doesn't benefit AD Ezreal or that benefits him in a very marginal way. I can think of a few things to do with this passive.

1) Increase Ezreal's MPen values by 5% per stack. To be clear, that doesn't mean Ezreal gets half a void staff at 4 stacks, it means if he has 20 MPen, he has 25 MPen at 5 stacks. If he has 10% MPen, he has 12.5% MPen at 5 stacks. That's one solution that wouldn't have any impact on AD Ezreal whatsoever, since unless he has the wrong runes or masteries, he has exactly 0 MPen.

2) Ezreal gains bonus AP for every stack. You could either make it a flat increase that scales with levels too, or make it a % increase like a mini deathcap. Of course, the % increase would not affect AD Ezreal very much, as he'll get a maximum of 30 AP from his Tri-Force. Maybe add Baron and Taric/Lulu/Sona AP increase to that, but all in all not a huge buff to him either.

3) Ezreal's basic attacks (and Q, since it applies on-hit effects) deal bonus magic damage equal to 3% of his AP per stack he has. Kinda like the Spellsword mastery that came with Season 3. Again, not a huge impact on AD Ezreal, but quite the buff to AP Ez's last-hitting power and Q damage.

IMO, the passive is really where you should look for a change. You can do so much with it, due to its fluctuating nature. I love that passive and even while playing AP Ez, I love managing my passive, it's part of the fun. If it had a real impact outside of early game and tower killing, it would be even better!


Mystic Shot

I LOVE this ability. Being rewarded for landing skillshots is always fun, but Ez has his own special take on it. It's kinda like playing Ryze, except you can't just target enemy champions. The fact that Lichbane now deals magic damage is very exciting, and I understand why this alone might warrant some caution regarding buffing AP Ezreal, but I think after a few weeks of thinkering around with S3 items, we'll realize he's stil not in a very good spot. The only thing I would like to see change about it would be a buff to its AP scaling, but I'm not sure this is necessary and I know it's not what would fix AP Ez.

Ok, I lied, there is another thing.... But that would be an unprecedented change... Make it so Ezreal's Mystic Shot applies on-hit effects AND spellvamp, Rylai's Crystal Scepter, Liandry's Tormet, etc. Honestly, I don't expect this to ever happen, but hey, you never know! That or remove the on-hit thing (which would screw AD Ezreal over and I think that's why it'll never happen) and severely increase the AP ratio. If Ez could apply Rylai's he could at least itemize for some CC :| I'm pretty sure he won't be interested in Frozen Fist (or whatever it's called now) since he relies so heavily on Lich Bane to deal damage.


Essence Flux

The width nerf really hurt AP Ezreal. It pretty much gutted his team fight presence, because he relied on heavy AoE magical damage to justify his presence. With his main spammable AoE damage having its size reduced by 50%, he's left in quite the sorry state. The base damage nerf didn't really help either, as that was one of the things AP Ez had going for him. On top of that, he lost his only CC, the one thing that made him very dangerous late game in a very subtle manner. To be quite honest, I think you should have compensated AP Ezreal when you implemented those changes. The AP ratio buff would have been substantial had it not come with the width nerf, but now he's doing less damage in a team fight, which is quite important for someone who only brings damage.

I know you don't want AD Ezreal to be able to push lanes and I understand why, but at the same time this is what's really holding back AP Ezreal. Katarina's shown that you CAN be a competitve pick (honestly I don't even want that, I just want AP Ez to not be so severely underpowered) even if you only bring damage, but I think one thing every competitive mid brings is the ability to wave clear. I think there are a few changes you could implement to solve this problem.

1) If Ezreal has 125 or more ability power, Essence Flux will deal damage (or 50% damage) to minions.
Why 125 AP? That might seem like this number is completely coming out of nowhere, but it's not. Let's look at how much AP Ezreal can get while building AD. Baron Buff gives up to 40 AP, Taric's Radiance gives 35 AP at max level and Triforce gives 30 AP. Unless the team also has a Sona or he has a Brilliance Elixir, AD Ezreal should never break 125 AP. Lulu's Whimsy would also push over this limit, but for very limited amounts of time. I think those fringe situations should not stop you from implementing this idea if you find it even remotely interesting, but I'm kind of biased :P Nevertheless, feel free to increase this number if you want to.

2) Essence Flux deals 80% (or 160% to compensate for the lack of base damage) of Ezreal's ability power to minions and monsters.
Of course, this would give AD Ezreal very minor pushing power, but at the same time AP Ezreal's clearing power would still be weak unless you go for something like 160% AP, in which case it would probably scale too well, since it would instantly clear waves later in the game. AP Ez number 1 turtler! xD Gotta admit, not an easy fix.

3) Revert the width nerf and fix the particles to match it. I believe Essence Flux was problematic because it inflicted the AS debuff in a very wide area. Now that it's gone, I don't see any reason to not revert the nerf.

4) Increase the AP scaling. That too won't fix the pushing problem, but would still be a nice addition.


Arcane Shift
Nothing to change here, this skill is perfect, love it, love everything about it.


Trueshot Barrage
Awesome skill, feels awesome to use, love it too. The only thing I would maybe suggest is make it so the decreased % damage is not applied to the AP ratio part of the skill, so if Ez has 500 AP, Trueshot Barrage would always deal the base damage and AD scaling bonus damage modified by the % damage decrease + the same static AP scaling bonus damage. Of course you'd need to tone down the ratio, but at least it would be a more reliable wave clearing ability. Might I mention that, oddly enough, this is how Gragas's bodyslam works (as in the base damage is reduced per target, but not the damage dealt by the AP ratio).


Items
Still gonna have to do TONS of tests, obviously, but I think S3 items aren't gonna help AP Ezreal that much.

So far, I like the new Tear, because it's a lot cheaper and you can buy it then rush Sheen for better last-hitting and harass potential, plus Seraph's Embrace just gives a lot of AP.

The new Lich Bane is also very much appreciated, because the base damage and the fact that it deals magical damage boost its early game and late game potential.

Twin Shadows is a cheap way of getting some CC, but I'd still prefer an interaction between Rylai's and Q, tbh ^^

DFG is very pricey, but the CDR and amount of AP are both great for Ez. Plus, the active makes it so if you want to E towards a squishy and commit for a kill, you have more burst. Still, the fact that AP Ez has such a hard time farming makes me not so sure about it. I guess it's one of those items you'd get very late in the game or if you get fed.

The changes to Deathcap (although I hate it on pretty much every mage) is really good for AP Ezreal, because the price reduction means you can get it faster and Ez needs a LOT of AP to make the build work.

Iceborn Gauntlet simply can't compete with Lich Bane in terms of damage and the armor is kind of wasted, but I might try and see if I can make it work. Doubt it, though, because the drop in damage would be quite significant and it actually costs more than Lich Bane with an item path that Ez just doesn't like very much.

Liandry's kind of a waste on Ez, since his Q won't proc it, but I might still buy Haunting Guise and upgrade it last if I have the money. Still wouldn't be anything more than a 6th item vs a high MR team, though.

All in all, I like the new items, especially Lich Bane and Seraph (but I'm not sure Seraph is actually a GOOD buy, I just know I like it), and to some extent the new DFG and Deathcap, but the fact remains that Ez has a problem farming :|

This is probably never gonna happen, but an item similar to Lich Bane, that deals AoE magic damage that scales with AP would basically solve this problem. Of course, the question is : Would it be balanced? I can't answer that, all I can do is throw ideas around :P


So, I guess it all boils down to...

Ok, so I know what you are about to say. It's a burden of knowledge to have to know that if Ezreal reaches a certain amount of AP, he can waveclear. The Trueshot Barrage thing is also a burden of knowledge... But like I mentioned before, for at least that one change there is a precedent. The Q applying both on-hit effects and Rylai's would be unique too, but do we really want to shy away from fun, unique mechanics? And, honestly, do you really think your player base is too stupid to understand those concepts? I don't :|
I don't think he needs too many changes (ex: I think giving him wave clearing capabilities AND a really good passive would probably turn AP Ezreal from bad to broken), but I do think he needs some love, so please turn your sights towards him just for a little while.

Ok, so I guess for now that's all I had to say. I just want to mention that, for me, there is no greater fun when playing League than hopping around with my short CD blink dishing out Tons of Damage (Phreak bait ) and hitting my skillshots to ensure I keep dealing damage with my all time favorite champion. I LOVE Ezreal, he's really fun and AP Ezreal is kind of unique, in my eyes (maybe he's not, but that's a feeling, you can't challenge that! ;P). It's gotten to the point where I can't play AD Ezreal, because when I do I forget I have auto-attacks! XD I'm really passionate about this issue and I believe that some fixes would make him a good pick, so that's why I made this thread, even though I doubt it'll get noticed. I can only hope you at least agree with me that something needs to be done

TL;DR Buff AP Ezreal... Riot pls


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Auryiel

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12-05-2012

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Cless

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12-05-2012

Well, until Riot realizes this: Iceborn Gauntlet and Lichbane passives do stack. For example, you use mystic shot, and it'll give the magic damage proc of lichbane, the physical aoe damage, and the aoe slow field from iceborn gauntlet. You now have an effective kiting build (just e, or w then auto attack to place down the aoe slow field if Q is on CD or there's something that's gonna block your Q).


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Raasu

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12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cless View Post
Well, until Riot realizes this: Iceborn Gauntlet and Lichbane passives do stack. For example, you use mystic shot, and it'll give the magic damage proc of lichbane, the physical aoe damage, and the aoe slow field from iceborn gauntlet. You now have an effective kiting build (just e, or w then auto attack to place down the aoe slow field if Q is on CD or there's something that's gonna block your Q).
Please delete this post so I can exploit this for weeks. LOL good find though. +1


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Vinster37

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12-05-2012

Err the thing with ap ez is his damage is so inconsistent and not that strong, champs like gragas have consistency problems, but then they have damage to back it up.

To be honest no need to write a wall of text.


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noiradle2

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12-05-2012

honestly the w width nerf should be reverted considering it was mainly nerfed to make pre-nerf faceroll ezreal have to actually aim it to some extent, but now w is more of a buff for teammates as ad ez.


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Auryiel

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12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cless View Post
Well, until Riot realizes this: Iceborn Gauntlet and Lichbane passives do stack. For example, you use mystic shot, and it'll give the magic damage proc of lichbane, the physical aoe damage, and the aoe slow field from iceborn gauntlet. You now have an effective kiting build (just e, or w then auto attack to place down the aoe slow field if Q is on CD or there's something that's gonna block your Q).
Xyph said this was intended. But, seriously, you gonna farm 7K gold as AP Ezreal and delay your other core items by how long? He still can't farm and that's the problem right now :\


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Zerocaliber

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12-05-2012

The lichbane change a was huge nerf to AP Ezreal. Are you kidding me?

You lost 30 magic resistance, 100 mana, roughly 6.3 movement speed, and a .25 ratio. Not to mention the fact that deathcap was nerfed making AP gains less significant. Old Lichbane does more damage past 150 AP (which is now more difficult to get) and you are paying 400 gold less for an item that is now less cost effective than it was before and whose supposed "buff" (magic damage) isn't really a buff because of how much damage it lost.


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Auryiel

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12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerocaliber View Post
The lichbane change a was huge nerf to AP Ezreal. Are you kidding me?

You lost 30 magic resistance, 100 mana, roughly 6.3 movement speed, and a .25 ratio. Not to mention the fact that deathcap was nerfed making AP gains less significant. Old Lichbane does more damage past 150 AP (which is now more difficult to get) and you are paying 400 gold less for an item that is now less cost effective than it was before and whose supposed "buff" (magic damage) isn't really a buff because of how much damage it lost.
Say you have 650 AP and a Lich Bane and you hit Vayne, who only has a GA for protection.

Let's assume she's a big noob and has no armor runes and masteries, so she has 139 armor. She takes 42% damage from physical sources of damage.

Your Lich Bane proc deals 650 * 0.42 = 273 physical damage.


Now, you have 600 AP and a Lich Bane, you hit Vayne, who only has a GA for protection. Let's assume she's smart and has flat MR runes and +2 MR from masteries. She has 74 MR, so she takes 57% damage from magical sources of damage.

Your Lich Bane proc deals ((600 * 0.75) + 50) * 0.57 = 307 magical damage.

And then factor in MPen. Say you have Sorc and Void Staff, Vayne has an effective MR of 21, so she takes 83% damage from your sources of magical damage.

Your Lich Bane proc deals ((600 * 0.75) +50) * 0.83 = 415 magical damage.


Lich is much better late game vs squishies and bruisers alike, in part thanks to the penetration changes. The mana loss is just annoying and the MS nerf, although annoying too, doesn't affect AP Ezreal as much because he's very mobile already since he likes to build CDR and can reduce the CD of E with Q. Yes, the MR nerf hurt, though, there's no denying that.


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Auryiel

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