Considering my new S3 Hecarim Jungle Build. Magic Resist/Tenacity problem.

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Meatcarnage

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Hey everyone, just thought I would put my new build out there due to the changes and all that.

Here is my problem: my problem is which boots and I want your thoughts on which enchantment.

In season 2 I always build Hecarim as a tank, but made sure to have a few items that worked around his passive, also because I like MS on him; however, I never built around his passive.

Season 2 I built:

Early Game:
Boots x3 Pots > Madreds Razors > Wriggles (I didn't buy HoG or Philosphers Stone out of preference) > Mercs Treads

Core:
GA > Sunfire Cape > Trinity Force > Force of Nature or in some order to counter the other team.. but generally start by building a piece of GA that applies to counter the other team and then Giants Belt for extra health


In Season 3 some of the same items/stat concepts apply however the early game items have changed drastically.

Early game
Machete x5 Pots > Boots > Spirit Stone

Now here's the issue: Riot recommends the Spirit of the Lizard Elder... I'm not sure about this item. However, I think Spirit of the Ancient Golem provides more synergy. Now here lies the problem: there is a tenacity redundancy with this item and Merc's Treads I just want to know what you all think. What enchantment do you guys think would be good too for boots.

Please leave your opinion below!! I wanna hear your S3 Hecarim Jungle playstyle.


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RTBardic

Member

12-05-2012

I've thought about Hecarim in the jungle also. I think which upgrade to SS you get will depend on what you want to do with the character, and if other boots are a priority for you.

Here's my take on it, though I am yet to try it out (I only played supports and Fiddles top to counter WW yesterday).

While the Ancient Golem looks very good on paper (and indeed, it provides a number of stats that my tanky/initiator Hecarim wants), it doesn't leave a neat way for me to get a basic amount of magic resist, since it gives physical armor instead of MR and you wouldn't get Merc's if you get this. As a result, I'm more likely to take one of the other two, and get Merc Treads. I'm eager to be argued against on this point.

That leaves the other two options if you go SS instead of Wriggles. I think that the Spectral Wraith upgrade might be the best if you are hoping to serve as the team's initiator/tank. 20% Spellvamp healing on top of W's heal is nice, and the 10% CDR means you're hitting Q even more often than you would have been.

I'd skip Lizard Elder entirely, as I think Hecarim gets his ganks not off of raw damage, but his ability to force a bad position for his enemy -- you're generally not picking up ganks with him unless your ally in lane steps up, and some small amount of bonus damage is not likely to change that. I currently think this buff is only for on-hit characters.

All this being said, keep in mind that Wriggles is still a thing you can buy -- and it might be the right play for you, depending on the enemies that you are up against.

For boot enchants, I have two things to say. First of all, don't enchant your tier 2 boots until you have a few more items. I think Captain boots are the best for a tank/initiator, but not unless you can actually survive and do your job, as the Captain enchant helps your team but not you. Think of enchanted boots as a non-essential bonus item, not part of your basic build that has to be completed each game.

One last point: If you are looking for a good mix of initiation, damage, and tankiness, I think that Hecarim is one of the few characters that Frozen Fist looks really good on as a substitute for Triforce. Ult into a teamfight and immediately hit everyone with a 3 second slow? You've now done your job initiating as long as you have competent teammates.


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Meatcarnage

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Yeah I upvoted, good input. I never even thought about the spellvamp to be honest. Its a good thought though.. I will try it tonight give it some good experimentation.

I agree the boot enchants aren't part of the early build. I should have mentioned that. However, that still doesn't decide which boot enchant I should use. Captain makes sense because I notice I get into trouble when I focus their carry and my team cant quite keep up chasing pace. Distortion/Ghost is good for setting up ganks. Alacrity seems like your vanilla flavour.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatcarnage View Post
Now here's the issue: Riot recommends the Spirit of the Lizard Elder... I'm not sure about this item. However, I think Spirit of the Ancient Golem provides more synergy. Now here lies the problem: there is a tenacity redundancy with this item and Merc's Treads I just want to know what you all think. What enchantment do you guys think would be good too for boots.
Please leave your opinion below!! I wanna hear your S3 Hecarim Jungle playstyle.
Honestly, I buy Machete, put it into slot 6 and forget about it until I have to sell it for slot space.
I start with Machete+pots. Armor reds+yellows, MR per level blues, Move Speed quints. Masteries like this.
Core Build:
Mobility Boots or Swift Boots
Trinity Force
Aegis of the Legion

Late game:
Mobility Boots or Swift Boots (enchant as needed)
Trinity Force
Runic Bulwark
Sunfire Cape
Liandry's Torment
Zephyr

I can't properly explain why this seems to work so well, but it is just crazy good on Hecarim. You have really high health, resistances are good, damage is good. Your W heals for a TON and you can be anywhere on the board that you want. I accept that there is less CC with this build but you can always get that random proc on Trinity Force.
I've also been toying with the idea of teamfight Hecarim and AP Hecarim, too.


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Acanthus

Senior Member

12-05-2012

No one likes the new Spirit Visage? +200 hp, +50 mr, 15% cdr, +20% healing amp (and with that w, rofl).

Liandry's doesn't proc on Sunfire, right?


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereticSage View Post
No one likes the new Spirit Visage? +200 hp, +50 mr, 15% cdr, +20% healing amp (and with that w, rofl).
Liandry's doesn't proc on Sunfire, right?
Liandry''s Torment only procs on "Spells", so it won't work with Sunfire.

Spirit Visage is a valid item on Hecarim. I simply find that my build works too well for some ineffable reason.

If I was going to use Spirit Visage, then I'd replace the Torment. However, that would severely cut into the damage this build does.


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OdiIon

Senior Member

12-05-2012

I have about a half dozen test builds on Hecarim, all of which are situational.

I run Hecarim as,
0/9/21, going into GP5, and health regen for easy sustain in the jungle, going all the way to the bottom for MS.

ArPen Reds, Arm Yellows, MR@18 Blues, MS Quints.


I'm sure it was unintentional, but this season's changes nerfed Hecarim's passive HARD. He is no longer is faster than any other champion in terms of land movement, which probably makes all Hecarim players sad to hear. Yes, he becomes really fast during his E, but that's it, for 2 seconds you outspeed someone, as opposed to being faster than everyone all the time.

One thing I have learned is that you'll never be as fast as you used to be in S2. It's a sad horrifying realization but it's true. A typical max build Hecarim S2 would look something like;
TF/Merc/FrozenHeart/ForceOfNature/Choice item.

That's +20% Bonus MS. You can't even get 10% anymore, without buying items that are less than desirable on Hecarim.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2812811
Refer to this thread for the math I did involving Hecarim's Passive granting about 50 free AD, using a typical inexpensive build, which is no longer possible because of the indirect nerfs as a result of Season 3 Hecarim.

Currently I found these items to be godlike when used in conjunction with each other on Hecarim.

Frozen Fist + Spirit of Ancient Lizard. Hecarim's Rampage procs Elder Lizard true damage, every single time.
you now have a pseudo AOE red buff.

Trinity Force + Black Cleaver. Hecarim Shreds and rips the target to pieces for lack of better words. Phage procs prevents running, Black cleaver passive leaves the targets all helpless.



So far this season after about a dozen Hecarim games, I've had NO problem with MR/Tenacity.
For MR, I've bought Merc Treads/Spirit Visage(+75 MR, +23 from Runes = 98MR + 53 Base = 151 MR)
151 MR = 60% Magic damage reduction.

For Tenacity, Spirit of Ancient Golem is AMAZING. Need MS instead of Tenacity when you have it on SAG? Grab Swifties instead and you're good.
(35 tenacity + 15 Defensive masteries = 50 Tenacity, = 45% CC reduction.)


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Sybreed

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Senior Member

12-05-2012

here's a build of one game I did with hec, it was pretty successful.

1- Machete/5 pots
2- Upgrade machete to stone, get lvl 1 boots
3- Get phage/sheen
4- Get lvl 2 boots NOTE: If you intend on going Elder Lizard, go Merc's threads. If you intend on going Tenacity/HP/Armor jungle item, go swiftness or mobility
5- Complete TF
6- Get black cleaver. Armor penetration REALLY helps Hec do damage.
7- If you went Elder Lizard, complete your set with Sunfire/Spirit Visage
7*- If you went Golem, go Spirit Visage + Other item that gives damage + armor or other stats you need.

For boots enchants, I used Furor enchant and it worked pretty well, Rampage made it proc everytime.

All in all, I don't use FH anymore, as new items make it less necessary. Black Cleaver is such a strong item on Hec (gives HP, Armor pen, move speed, attack dmg) that I don't understand why it's not a recommended one. Spirit visage will leave you with 80% HP after a late-game teamfight.

The sunfire build leaves me with 3.2K HP, aroud 160-170 armor/MR

Don't know the exact stats of the other build. But they both worked pretty nicely. That's the fun thing with Hec, he now has many viable builds.