Shattering the concept that ELO is a measurement of a Players skill with a Champion.

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Dovian

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Senior Member

12-05-2012

I'm sure there's lots of lovely information in there, unfortunately I could give a **** about reading a multi-post thread.


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LordRandomness

Senior Member

12-05-2012

The thing that annoys me about League the most is that Riot encourages people to only really think about 5. It's all "champion skill" this and "tons of damage" that, and it makes it really hard to retrain yourself to forget about which champion your playing and try to make educated guesses as to what the enemy jungler is doing.

It doesn't help in my case that all this big picture stuff kinda sucks the fun out of the game for me. I want to be beating things up, not doing a bad impression of a psychic ("I sense that the enemy mid is somewhere in the bottom half of the map since they left their lane down bot river! ooooOOOOoooo!"). League is full of things that are boring but absolutely essential to consider to win (since otherwise the enemy team takes advantage of the fact you didn't consider it and starts a fight in good conditions for them), and it's making me begin to wonder if MOBAs maybe just aren't my thing.

I kinda hope not, though. Maybe I can learn to enjoy the tactical elements of the game? What I need is something with less focus on the actual champions, like, everyone gets the same champion and it's a generic wire mesh thing. I dunno.


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macsauce

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Stop bumping this stupid thread, nobody cares.


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NinjaKinryu

Member

12-06-2012

I could'nt care less about your post bro


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phatcat09

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaKinryu View Post
I could'nt care less about your post bro
That's fine. I don't wake up every morning asking myself "Is what I'm writing going to make NinjaKinryu happy".

Thank You for sharing with the world though your true personality.


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AxeFresh

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Your chances of winning increase as your skill level with said champion increases.

Now this isn't to be mistaken with the flat skill level of LoL, which is warding...farming...juking...killing...ganking... roaming, being a team player, knowing your counters (and how to avoid them).

All of those skills are more important than your skill level with a champion. That isn't to say you don't need skill with a champ to do well with them, but it certainly isn't the end of the world if you play poorly

So to a certain extent I agree with you. Although differences of skill levels with a champion can win or lose a lane, and that sometimes alters your other skill levels (being a team player. Losing a lane is not being a team player.) so your skill level has some weight to your overall "elo" or "knowledge" of this game in its entirety. Saying your skill at a champion has NOTHING to do with your elo is absurd


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phatcat09

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AxeFresh View Post
Your chances of winning increase as your skill level with said champion increases.

......

So to a certain extent I agree with you. Although differences of skill levels with a champion can win or lose a lane, and that sometimes alters your other skill levels (being a team player. Losing a lane is not being a team player.) so your skill level has some weight to your overall "elo" or "knowledge" of this game in its entirety. Saying your skill at a champion has NOTHING to do with your elo is absurd
I'm going to say we're not disagreeing, but you read something wrong and/or made a false assumption about something I said.

You can't have one without the other and I said multiple time that the reason I'm Exemplifying points 1-4 is because they are the LEAST spoken of.

And My analysis says all 5 Areas including your Champion skill makes up the Core Skill Areas so you have to understand I'm not saying what's MORE important I'm speaking on what IS important, including the craap we never hear about.

tl;dr Of course it isn't just one thing silly bear.

Also what I said was said in way to explain WHY as opposed to just simply What

We can tell people that "Yes it's important to NOT lose a lane" but the WHY and HOW are given as well. Why would anyone accept the What if their own information for analyzing it's merit or understanding how to do it properly isn't where it should be.

My Guide isn't an argument for what the best Tactics are, but rather Why and How they are the meta to the meta if you will.


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Max Gripness

Senior Member

12-06-2012

This is the best guide I have ever seen for League of Legends. I have played this game for almost 2.5 years and I play at at least the level of most platinum players.

If someone reads this guide, digests the information and REALLY uses it, I have no idea why they couldn't reach at least platinum; I think they could reach diamond if they put in enough time to do it.


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phatcat09

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neophiliac View Post
If someone reads this guide, digests the information and REALLY uses it, I have no idea why they couldn't reach at least platinum; I think they could reach diamond if they put in enough time to do it.
This is one of the best things I've heard in response to this thread. No one is "just better" at League for no reason it's because they' understand something in a manner that gives them the advantage of not only knowledge, but how to consistently use that knowledge in a way that inevitably makes us come terms with them as being highly skilled.

Past platinum, the disparity in observed skill level becomes near impossible to discern because of what re lasted thing I said to Morello here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatcat09 View Post
This Would be true if the reason the OP were asking was based on direct Mathematics.

When people think of True Elo they're asking themselves "What Elo do I see myself being consistent at?"

Your True Elo isn't a statistical impossibility, it's a term used to describe where you think your ability to maintain at consistent level of gameplay is, specifically in relationship to others.

My Elo dropped to 500 in Season two. There's no way in hell I'm ever falling there again. My innate prowess for the game guarantees me an understanding of where I am in comparison to others and I can say that my True ELO is much closer to the 1300 - 1400 range (i.e where I will be steady until I "get better" again.)

To put what I'm saying into perspective -- as I'm sure you're not even beginning to consider what I'm about to say:

People in the Upper Echelons of ELO aren't even necessarily at their "True Elo"

YES by mathematical definition they're at their "True ElO", but by the contextual definition which considers "How well can I play consistently" they're well within their ability to gauge this question.

For every Elo Range there is a margin, this margin makes itself visible in those areas where people seem to have trouble "breaking into XXXX Elo range". As Elo rises this margin shortens in a quadratic manner.

This is because the level of observed Skill between players plateaus over time and then reaches a point where no degree of "know how" can beat the variables of chance.

To epitomize my point"

Quote:
The signs of a true master. I speak for fencing, mostly, but I think these signs apply across all boundaries - to the physical or the mental.
A minimum of movement. The master is no faster, dextrous, or intelligent than you. He simple knows _exactly_ where to be, and where he wants to go...
Mastery of the mental aspects. The true master (at least in fencing) can win against an opponent without ever using any tricks or great strategy. They simply know, exactly, what the opponent's weak points are. They can psych that opponent out, without ever doing any sort of real action.
Variety. The true master knows every trick in the book. He pulls 'em when you least expect it. He can win entire tournaments simply by using tricks.
Maturity. The true master is mature. He loses gracefully, even to the newest newbie. He handles blatantly incompetent referee-ing without flinching.
Mentoring. The true master is also a mentor. He shares his knowledge, because it is second nature to him. He teaches and guides others. He will support his close pupils in any way possible.
You should see the parallels. There's a limit nothing inherently makes them better so once knowledge and the ability to act on that knowledge is equitable we reach an inability to properly discern rank differences until the collective advances.
Once the collective advances then the disparities become greater again because someone will always be stronger than the ability range of the former.

tl;dr I'm saying Morello is wrong to consider Elo from a purely mathematical perspective.
Yes there's a degree of "perfection" that has to be mastered that it becomes near impossible to advance to diamond if you're not capable of being better, what this comes down to is practice and/or innate ability to exceed because you are predisposed to be adept at moba gameplay.

If we can show people this information I Know we will have less infighting


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phatcat09

Senior Member

12-07-2012

bump update