[Champion Concept ver. 2.0] Shia, The Void's Timid Doppel

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blackkat101

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Chatting more with people who don't post on the forums, this is from a skype conversation with an acquaintance of mine. His chat will be in quotes with my response underneath. If in my responses it's in (parenthesis) it is a thought from now, and not a response back.
=========

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 01
First, your forum format is still atrocious, give people the general information first, then if they wan to keep reading they will with all the explinations and stuff.
(added a summary to the top)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 01
Second, I know this is not really part of the character design, but Riot's system doesn't allow for multiple characters, no matter how rotted the main body is. There might be a work around where they actually just root the Dopple body and the main body transforms, but that can be messy.
(I understood what he was talking about here, but I felt like Shia's design could work. It is not as if she is two completely separate champions you could use in conjuncture. Each body of Shia's can only be used one at a time, and cannot be use to freely wander away... but I digress.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 01
Ok now to the champion. Personally I don't like the ultimate. The idea is nice, but it doesn't seem to combo at all with her normal abilities. Which begs to question, why have the normal body in the first place.
(Well, while she is not meant to combo like Elise or Jayce, Shia can do a couple of fun things. Take something like this when trying to catch an opponent:
1. Main body: Using the E passive to use brush to close the distance on the enemy.
2. Main body: W wall to further increase speed and block the enemy vision (hit them with it to cause them to flee if necessary.
3. Main body: Now that they cannot see you beyond the wall, position yourself and summon your doppel to a location.
4. Doppel body: Jump on them with your gap closer Q and quickly unleash your W nuke.
5. Doppel body: Continue to Q around them if they stay and ready your shield to help reduce damage.
6: Doppel body: If you are unable to finish them and they flee out of your doppel's range, or they are to powerful and are now bursting you, release your doppel.
7: Main body: Hopefully you hid your body in the brush or a safe distance away so that you may make your escape.

The only thing I didn't use above was Shia's main body's Q passive, that gives her auto-attacks a slow. But that is used more for poking and helping another teammate.

This combo was mentioned to him later, but I'll place it here as it is relavant to his post.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 01
oops ment to edit beofre the champion part. there was one more thing that bugged me not champion related. it's her rooted body, roots still allow for people to grab onto them, and to be moved, like with blitzcranks pull. You'd have to give the main body some sort of spellschield like effect to stop those from happening. which doesn't go well with, "if main body is silanced and the doople goes back to the body before the silance wears off she's still silanced for that short duration", because with a spellshield she wouldn't be able to be silanced. there is no mechanic in the game that works for what you described (just letting you know as a heads up)
So I'd have to word that rooting differently.
I did realize there is nothing in the game of the sort, so this would be something new.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 01
back to the champ and abilities: her passive would just have to be tested so it doesn't get broken, any time there are percentages to any ability there has to be caution because they change expoentially.
Yep, on the percentages, that is also the reason her main body was given such a hit to how much it got from items. (This was also mentioned by Wulffe above. I'm hoping that the passive to the main body offsets the doppel body's. Would be amazing if that could get tested...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 01
her whole main body seems really boring in all. she has two passives (not even toggles that take no mana), a slow and a speed boost. and then a really powerfull wall. which would be the only thing I would level ever. (given that it's just the main body, not looking at dopples body).
(That is understandable when only looking at the main body, however the doppel is a main part of her, so you'd have to look at it as a whole. The two passive abilities on the main body are tied with very important abilities. Q being her most easily spamable spell if upgraded for it's cooldown and E being a very important shield with a very large cooldown without upgrading. I responded to him with the following though:)

1. Lore created first (30 min)
2. Designed abilities to fit the lore (15 hours)
3. Added stats (? hours)
4. Rebalancing and reworking stats and abilities (15 hours)

In the end, she turned out to be two champions in one.
- On her main body, she plays a game of keep away, as I made it so that she did not have any way to damage and only one active.
- The doppel is where she is proud and it was made to shine. Attempted to make the abilities work with each other, from the gap closer, to the nuke, to finally a special shield. She came out as an AD carry that builds like an AP carry.

The rooting of the main body from the champion was to tie in with her lore and add in a bit of strategy to her play. Of course I realize that Riot would not make two champions in one (though cannot say I wouldn't love it if they did make Shia). Riot has already proven that they prefer the engage style of play and don't like it when people would run around, like you would have to with Shia's main body (at least that is my baseless assumption). This champion was of course built to my tastes as that is the kind of game that I like to play. Though I know I'm in a very small minority.

In that #4 part I listed above, for the rebalancing, I looked at a couple of guides people made, as well as compared each of Shia's abilities to almost every champ in LoL, in terms of damage, cost, cooldown, utility and so on.

(at this point is when I mentioned the combo above)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 01
Nicely done that her W is the weakest of the three abilities. I'd have to say they kinda combo together? if I was playing I'd, W,Q,E,Q or something. 1 point into E, which is way too powerful to have on a normal ability even with a long cool down, having a 3 second invulnerability that does dmg back is "way better thank Kayles ult?" (i'd have to re-read the difference between the two). That in conjunction with a 0.5 second untargetable quick cooldown (no real draw back) is kind of outragous. I would definitly get rid of the untargetability. Even Talon's and Katarina's jumps arn't that good (which also don't do that much dmg).
(Yes, the Doppel's W was made to be the weakest of the three because of the strength it recieved on the main body. This is to make the player decide on what is more important to them when leveling. Do you level the Q, W, or E first? On the second part that he mentions E. From the looks of it, he is referring to my original design of Shia's E (which can be seen in the old PDF) that actually made both bodies invincible for 3 sec with reflecting. Unlike Kayle still, it could only be used on the self, but lasted as long. Very overpowered. This was however changed as I try to explain below.)

Kayle's ult is 3 sec invulnerable on either herself or an ally. At max rank, it costs only 50 and has a 60 sec cooldown. If you read my remake, it does not make the doppel invulnerable anymore (and of course is only self cast). It can reflect up to a max of 50% of the damage at max rank and as far as a cost there are other champions with as high costing skills too. On the other 50% that is not reflected, it is still taken (again only at max rank). Only if they attack the main body, which is normally hidden, does it reflect all back. and work as invulnerability. This skill took the longest time to rebalance because as you said, giving her an 3 sec invulnerable, which I originally had, was too much and too close to Kayle's ult (which I still think kayle's is amazing in that she can use it on allies). At rank one it only reflects 10% damage and she takes 90% of the damage still, so the E is now far from the invulnerability of Kayle's ult. You'd have to set up the main body to get hit ahead of time to be able to use it properly for a reflect, that could be a bit of work as both the shield and the casting of doppel have a short channel delay and the enemy would need to of course hit the main body after that set up process, the full reflect for the main body is more like a small defence mechanism to protect herself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 01
The main point is, the only that even comes close to this ability that isn't an ult is Fiora's Riposte, which only stops One Auto Attack and does it's own dmg back, not a percentage. Basically what you did was put parts of Kayle's and Galio's ult on one basic ability, which is way to strong to start at 3 seconds at lvl one, and 3 seconds at any lvl.

Riposte is only 1.5 seconds
(Now I go into a comparison of Fiora's Riposte, Kayle's Ult and Galio's Ult compared to Shia's E)

Fiora's W: Riposte
Passive: Increases attack damage by 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35

Active:
Range: Self, reflects any distance.
CD: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 sec.
Cost: 45 (all 5 ranks)
Damage: 60 / 110 / 160 / 210 / 260 (+1.0 per AP)
Duration: 1.5 sec.
~ Fiora will negate one auto-attack/ basic attack and deal a scaling ammount of magic damage back once. Does not work on abilities.
~ Fiora also gains flat AD passively for just leveling this skill.

Kayle's R: Intervention
Range: 1200
CD: 90 / 75 / 60 sec.
Cost: 100 / 75 / 50
Damage: - / - / -
Duration: 2 / 2.5 / 3 sec.
~ Kalye's ultimate is amazing. It grants invincibility for 2-3 seconds.
~ It can be used on allies. It literally can save your teammates and yourself.

Galio's R: Idol of Durand
Range: 1200 AoE Taunt
CD: 170 / 150 / 130
Cost: 100 / 150 / 200
Damage: 220 / 330 / 440 (+0.6 per AP)
Duration: Up to 2 sec.
~ Reduces damage taken by 50% at all ranks.
~ All enemy units are taunted in the AoE radius.
~ Every auto attack increases the damage dealt by 5% (up to 40% bonus damage).
~ Can be canceled early and still deal full damage.
~ Works with Rylai's Slow (diminished effects).

Shia's Doppel's E: Mirrored Retaliation
Range: Self, reflects any distance.
CD: 70 / 60 / 50 / 40 / 30
Cost: 90 (all 5 ranks)
Damage: - / - / - / - / - (no bonus damage added, no scaling)
Duration: 2 / 2.25 / 2.5 / 2.75 / 3 sec.
Main Body: Invulnerable, reflects all damage. Negates effects.
Doppel Body: Negates effects. Reflects 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50% damage.
~ Main body becomes invulnerable and reflects all damage. Effects negated and not reflected. The main body is normally hidden as it cannot move while the doppel is out making it hard to abuse the full reflect.
~ This can only be used when the doppel is out taking more thought into when you can use it.
~ The doppel body is not invincible. Damage is reduced and reflected by 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50%. The rest of the damage (90 / 80 / 70 / 60 / 50%) is still taken. No status effects in this time. This is because you are mobile and can attempt to reflect things back, but you will still be taking damage.

-----------

Now to do some quick comparing.

Fiora's to Shia's
~ Riposte does not cancel movement or interrupt her abilites and activates right away. Mirrored Retaliation has a small channel time (0.2 sec), and any protection to the main body can take longer to get to it as it needs to travel the distance first.
~ Riposte has half the cost and about 1/4th the cooldown of Mirrored Retaliation, though it does last half as long (1.5 sec compared to 3 sec)
~ Mirrored Retaliation can only be used if the doppel is already out, therefor cannot be used at any time like Riposte.
~ Mirrored Retaliation only blocks partial damage on the doppel, but from both spells and auto-attacks. Riposte negates 1 auto-attack, and has not effect on spells.

Kayle's to Shia's
~ Intervention has comparable cost at starting levels to Mirrored reflection, but then makes it to half the cost when both are maxed.
~ Intervention does have a long CD. Mirrored Reflection's CD starts long, does reduce as it level's, but with still a decently long CD. When both maxed Kayle's has twice the CD (at 60 sec to 30 sec, compared to rank 1 at 100 sec to 70 sec).
~ Intervention gives full invincibility for 2-3 seconds. Can be self cast or cast on an ally in range. Deals no damage.
~ Mirrored Retaliation lasts 2-3 sec. Only the main body, which is immovable receives full protection and reflects full damage (no bonus). The doppel body only receives 10-50% protection, and reflects that amount.
~ Mirrored Retaliation has a small channel time and can only be cast when the doppel is out, while Intervention can be cast at any time and does not interrupt Kayle.
~ Mirrored Retaliation stops any new CC effects from being applied, while Intervention has no effect on CC.

Galio's to Shia's
~ Galio's is an AoE taunt.
~ Galio's can deal damage even if not attacked. If attack he deals bonus damage. Shia requires someone to attack her to deal damage back, or else it does nothing.
~ Galio recieves a 50% damage reduction at all levels, Shia's doppel recieves 10% at level 1 and up to 50% at level 5.
~ Galio's ult does have a much higher CD and Cost because it is an AoE taunt that deals AoE damage that scales. A very nice ability that can change a team fight.
~ Adding in a note from Galio's passive, he gains power from MR, so he will be building tankier than Shia, helping more with the damage reduction from his ult. Shia will most likely be building like an AP carry, therefore not as much defense and Mirrored retaliation has still a high cost with a decent CD so that it cannot be spammed.
~ Like mentioned in all the other comparisons above, Shia's main body cannot use Mirrored Retaliation. The doppel needs to be out first, so if she is already being chased in her main body, it may not be the best choice to summon your doppel to block only some damage. and then you've definitely not escaped and have to wait at a min of 30 sec for another shield.



(Anywho, that was a conversation that did not take place on the forum, but was related to Shia. Therefore, I thought I'd add it here. My friend did not have anything else to say after I posted those comparisons, so I'm not sure what he thought of those.

What do you guys think of that? Do some of Shia's numbers need to be adjusted? )



- Kat


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blackkat101

Senior Member

12-05-2012

This next conversation is with another acquaintance of mine. He is one of the more knowlegable of the group I hang out with when it comes to League matters. Format will be in the same for as the conversation in the last post.
=========

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
One thing I have noticed right away is that when you say your abilities get life steal because they deal physical damage and not magic is incorrect. If the ability does not apply on hit effects it goes with spell vamp instead of life steal. Armor pen works fine though since its physical damage.

Its a pretty common misconception I think
Aha, I'll have to fix that then. I can honestly say, i did not realize that is how it worked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
One of the issues "Acquaintance 01" brought up was one I had as well. LOL isnt really set up for multiple characters to be controlled. I know there are summons like tibbers, but you never actually control them the same way. If this was Dota it would work perfectly since you can have multiple things selected and move them indvidually. I am not saying that it cant work, but they would have to find a work around for that issue.
Understood that while I was making her, though you are not controlling multiple characters at one time. Only one or the other at any one time. If the doppel is out, you control the doppel while the main body is rooted to a point. While the doppel is away, then you control the main body.

I've seen issues of multiple champions in one or pet champions that riot has commented on, so I understand a little bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
Yeah if LoL was actually set up like an RTS it would have worked perfectly. Camera controls are something that might be a problem with the doppel though. usually you can center your camera on your champ, but if you have the doppel up would it just go to her instead of the main body. They would probably have to do something to make that work, but honestly the camera thing isn't a big deal.
Ah, I was thinking along the lines like when I mentioned summoner spells, that if you did the center camera, it would center around the doppel while it was out.

But i really didn't think all that much on the camera.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
Yeah didnt think about summoners. Also I know the shield on the E is strong, but the cooldown seems crazy high. Especially at early ranks. I think it might be better with a shorter duration and a lower cooldown honestly.
The mana costs and cooldowns was an attempt to balance the E, but that could work. What would you suggest for the duration or CD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
I dont know if people want something with a 70 second cooldown. its almost a second ultimate.
Mmm, wonder what the longest cd on a non ultimate is now...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
Not sure. Maybe 20 something seconds at early ranks, but thats a guess.
Ah, Ashe's Hawkshot has a 60 sec cooldown at all ranks.
Master Yi's Meditate: 35 cd at all ranks.
Master Yi's Yuju Style: 25 cd at all ranks.
(I cheated and did some searches.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
ah yeah forgot about that
I still think that a scaling duration would work better and keep the cooldown decently high.
So maybe 30 or 40 seconds at all ranks, but the duration gets better as you level
So, maybe 50 or 40 could work for a cd as it drops to 30 at max rank?
And maybe start the duration at 1.5 or 2 and raise to 3?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
was thinking like 1 and raise to 2 or around that. 3 seconds of invuln is really strong
It's only invul on the main body though, which is hidden and hard to set up.
Because of channel time on summoning the doppel and then channel time on using the shield.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
oh whats the doppel get? like 50 % or something?
50% at max rank, starts at 10%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
ok then 3 is fine for that
I originally had invul on both for 3, and yeh, that was way too much. It was the first skill i overhauled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
still think the cd is too long at 70 seconds for rank 1 though.
would put it lower and just use the same for all ranks.
I did think it was long, but I'd rather buff than nerf. So I thought I'd start high and work my way down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
just lower the duration at the begining for balance or something like that
Ok, I'll work that in either today or tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
The main body is kinda weird to me. She seems more supporty and doesn't do a whole lot which I understand is lore based. The doppel is supposed to do the damage
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
I just think that I would almost always be in doppel form, unless I needed to move to get into position.
That is the point, to mainly use the doppel.
The main body is for set up since the doppel can only move in its range. This is to offset the power that the doppel gets. The main body can also be used for escapes if you placed it in the right spot, as the doppel cannot get away as easily. So you unsummon, to get back to the main. The doppel's waltz does not work on allied minions or ally champions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
makes sense
What did you think of her doppel's range from the main body?
2000 to high or low?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
Might make doing long fights hard, but you cant have it too big since then the main body is way too safe.
Yeh, did not want people to just sit the main body at a turret. Tried to get a range that if they are at one, the doppel can wander about halfway to the next turret. So if the main is in the middle of two turrets, the doppel could just make it to either, but then the main is left there in the middle.

This was to make the player think about where to summon from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
yeah
I like the idea of summoning from the jungle over a wall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
makes counterplaying her kinda interesting I guess. If you know where the main body just run a certain distance away and you cant die
Yup, did think about that too.
"Acquaintance 01" thought that her doppel's W was weak, but that was a good thing as it balances out the main body's W wall. Thoughts?

I tried making each spell attractive so that you'd have to decide on what was more important:
Q: Mainly used for the doppel, giving you a gap closer and small dodge.
W: Mainly used for the main body, powerful wall and the main body's only active ability.
E: Mainly used for the doppel, giving you a nice amount of protection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
It doesnt do a huge amount of damage, but goes through armor which is always nice. If you wanted to change it at all you could get rid of the armor pen on the ability itselft and make it so they have reduced armor for a couple seconds after. It seems fine the way it is now though
I didn't want to really have the reduction for a period as I didn't want the doppel to act as a support in that way. I just wanted to give her a small nuke, as it's her biggest damaging spell. With things like reduction over time, it could be too powerful in that it not only helps you, but the entire team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
Yeah I understand that.
Dont wanna make her do too much with her abilites.
How about combo's? I listed one in response to "Acquaintance 01" as he thought she really didn't combo well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
I think the doppels Q and W work well together.
Q gets you close and W hits easy, then if they retaliate you can E to reflect that damage back. Works about as well as fiora imo. IDK combos in LoL are kinda dumb anyway. Most of the time its just use all your abilites then leave and its a combo
Sounds about right.

On the main, what do you think of having only one active, with 2 passives (the second helping the active one)
In "Acquaintance 01's" words again, he thinks the main is boring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
You get doppel at level 1 right?
Yes. Which the doppel should be leveled at each chance of course because it really affects cooldowns and the passive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
I guess the main doesnt do a whole lot, except try to live and help teammates and set up places for the doppel. Idk overall the main not be exciting, but I dont think it has to be if you want it as just a set up for the doppel.
Alright, I'm pretty happy with what the main does, as what you just said is the point.

On her base stats, she is set up like a melee AD champion, heavily influenced by comparing Diana/Darius/Master Yi.

As her main is ranged, it is a bit much (though again it has no attacking skills). So this was build around the doppel.

Also used this also as a reference/guide:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...d.php?t=988748

Thoughts? or tweaks you'd do to them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
Dont know or pay attention to base stats all that often in this game tbh. As long as she is in line with other similar champs I think it should be fine though
Shia is at an average between those 3 champs, with some tweaks here and there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
Should be fine then
One last think i can think of is, what are your thoughts on me deciding to use AP for physical damage (like giving her doppel scaling on her auto attack with AP instead of AD). So needing to build her like an AP carry, but plays as an AD carry or maybe played as a bruiser style, cause you might want some health on the doppel being melee and all.

If anything, if you're playing against an opponent who knows nothing about Shia, they'd see you build AP, so they'd build MR instead of the needed AR =^.^=
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
Its interesting for sure and I guess it makes it so she cant run ad items and use the main body. I think it could work its just a little different cause we havent seen anything like it before. Items like ROA would work well too since it gives lots of stats that benefit her. Hmm just looking at it now, but if you have like 500 ap you get a ton of AD. the ratio on the ult might be too high. At 500 ap she gets 350 AD which is pretty crazy.
The ratio is a little high, most likely will change the AA ration on the double (for AP to AD) to 60% down from 70%.

Gold wise, 1 AP is worth about 0.6 AD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
Mages near the end of the game run about 400+ ap on average I bet. Most AD type chars only have in the 200's and maybe if your a champ like riven get into the 300's.

Also getting armor pen for her physical abilites is weird. buying a last whipser doesnt really fit with the way her stats work.
Gold wise comparison is how much it would cost to get the same amount of AP as it would AD. Say you bought a 100 AP item for said amount of gold, for that same amount, it'd get you 60 AD item.

Mages also have range, while Shia's doppel is melee and doesn't have the nukes that most AP carries have. That was at least my reasoning behind the .7 ratio. Also, Shia only has her Q and W on her doppel for damage other than auto-attacks. The shield only works if they attack you.

Maybe drop it from .7 to .65?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
idk its kinda hard to work out honestly
It gives her a really high amount of ad
Yup, but unlike many auto-attack champions, they can easily stack on-hit effects with the AD items. To get that high AD on Shia's doppel, you'd need to build AP which do not normally have many on-hit effects for auto-attacks. That and when in her main body, she gains none of this said boost to her auto-attacks.

If you build say the new Black Cleaver on Shia, sure, her auto-attacks are stronger and she now has a nice on-hit, but then her abilities all lose out on some of their damage, as well as the AP to AD scaling the doppel gets for auto-attacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
Yeah but I dont think that would be in her core items anyway. Honestly she could be built as hybrid and work pretty well. Take gunblade for example: gives ad, ap, life steal, and spell vamp
Sounds like a must on her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acquaintance 02
idk it could be fine its just hard to say if that is too much without seeing it in action
Of course.
Just for reference, only items that give both AP and AD are:
Trinity Force
Guinsoo's Rageblade
Hextech Gunblade

I'll also have to add a comparison of Shia's wall to Anivia's wall and Karthus' wall, like I did comparing Fiora, Kayle and Galio to Shia's shield in the conversation with "Acquaintance 01."

Oh, wow. You've been helping me for almost 2 hours.
Thank you sooo much for taking the time to discuss this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by =Acquaintance 02
NP. Didnt realize it was that long.
(I will be making adjustments to R: Doppelganger on it's AP to AD scaling later. I will also be posting a comparison of W: Veil of Shadow to Anivia and Karthus' walls. Finally will be doing the above mentioned tweaks to the CD and duration of E: Mirrored Retaliation. Oh, and almost forgot, need to fix the life steal/ spell vamp parts of the skills.

After all the said changes are made, I will post stating so.)



- Kat


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Moby the White

Senior Member

12-05-2012

oh dear god what a concept i will have to read every detail later and give you a review man can't right now due to the extent of length and my lack of time.


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blackkat101

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Thank you so much Moby. Take your time reading it, it's nice enough to know that some people are.

I hope I answered all your questions in the notes as well as from the two conversations with my friends listed above. If anything was not covered yet. Please mention it and I will attempt to go into as much detail as I can.



- Kat


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Moby the White

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Lore:24/25
Reason: syntax missed a point for spelling and grammar

P: 25/25
Reason I absolutely loved it, fits the theme perfectly!!!

Q. 25/25
Reason: I loved both abilities and her second Q is like fizz's flip in my mind.

W 20/25
Reason Balance the armor penetration has more penetration than Last Whisper. Plus veil of shadows seems to work more like graves smoke rather than brush.

E 24/25
Reason: i feel that if she is unseen at anytime she should also get the buff

R. 25/25
Reason I was really excited about the low cooldown giving me ample opportunity to play with the doppel!

Bonus Points: Originality +1, Organization +1

Total Lore PQWER: 145/150


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blackkat101

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Thank you for the very generous review Moby the White.

I will attempt to fix the spelling and grammar errors in the lore later and of course when I find them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby the White
W 20/25
Reason Balance the armor penetration has more penetration than Last Whisper. Plus veil of shadows seems to work more like graves smoke rather than brush.
The armor penetration was what makes this spell a decent nuke. I felt it was alright to give these numbers because in both of Shia's bodies, she only has two damaging abilities. Both only in her doppel body. (I am not counting the shield as it only deals damage if the enemy attacks her during its duration.) However, if you have a suggestion on what it should be changed to, I will take it into consideration.

On Veil of Shadows compared to Graves' Smoke Screen, Smoke Screen block all vision while inside, but does nothing while you are out of it. Veil of Shadows works like a wall or brush would for blocking vision. Like when you place a ward near the corner of the wall, but it's more on one side than the other, you cannot see everywhere in the ward's radius. Ward's require a line of sight that is blocked by walls and brush. That is essentially what Veil of Shadow will do, blocking enemy vision. If say they have a minion on both sides of the Veil (because you can walk through the Veil, it does not impede movement), they would be able to see on both sides of the wall as the minions grant their team vision. Same would work for wards and champions. If someone on their team places a ward or is on the other side of the Veil than themselves, they will have vision on both sides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby the White
E 24/25
Reason: i feel that if she is unseen at anytime she should also get the buff
Wouldn't this make it to powerful? I did originally think her to have this if the enemy team could not see her, she would gain the movement buff, but I did not want to overpower her. I could revert that part of the ability back if you think it would not imbalance her.




Again, thank you for the time reading and reviewing my champion, Shia.

- Kat


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blackkat101

Senior Member

12-05-2012

I have just finished changing the values and attributes on the following:
- Waltz in the Light
- Aegis Severer
- Mirrored Retaliation
- Doppelganger

These were mainly balancing numbers and fixing how spell vamp and life steal works.



- Kat


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Moby the White

Senior Member

12-05-2012

i only docked you one point for the unseen thing and on that it was purely my opinion and that was due to it being based off of the lore...

if nobody sees her she would get that bonus yes?

that was why i said that...

also the veil was a tad confusing but ill try to reread it and fully grasp it I only meant that maybe it seems like people in it can't see out of it. Brush prevents people from seeing into it... sooo
maybe its either :

Like Akali's smoke screen or Like graves smoke screen


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Moby the White

Senior Member

12-05-2012

sounds kind of like you are making the wall decrease their vision within the fog of war beyond the veil so if you had a circle of vision and you cast veil then beyond that line there is no vision for enemies. works in both directions?


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blackkat101

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby the White
sounds kind of like you are making the wall decrease their vision within the fog of war beyond the veil so if you had a circle of vision and you cast veil then beyond that line there is no vision for enemies. works in both directions?
I've attached 4 pictures. These were just quickly done, so please excuse the sloppiness. They should be attached in the order you view them. Text is included on them.
So hopefully as you can see in the pictures, like how a ward interacts with a wall or brush, it would work so with Shia's Veil of Shadow. Think of it as summoning a long skiny brush maybe? The Veil again is half the width of Anivia's wall so that you hide on one side or the other of it, not really any space to hide inside it. Like brush, while blocking vision, it does not block skills/abilities or movement. Both enemy and ally can walk through it. The vision blocking of course is only applied to the enemy. It will do nothing to your allies vision, other than being able to see that a shadowy veil of a wall is there.

- Kat


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