The banning/picking of Diana in IPL5 shows LoL is improving

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Levgre

Senior Member

12-01-2012

She is being banned because she is a viable assassin. Diana puts teams out of their current comfort levels. She is adding more strategies to the game, which the teams have not yet practiced and prepared for, and it's easiest to simply ban her.

Why she's a viable Assassin, and others are not, is pretty obvious. Her ult is essentially a lesser form of Nocturne's ult, 900 range is greater than 'normal' gap closers, and hence provides greater reach/zoning for jumping on squishies.

But, this tactic is actually balanced, because Diana loses damage by using her ult without consuming a Q mark. Since she has to build relatively tanky, Diana's damage is already moderate, anyways. She's not a huge threat because of her power level (even if she is quite strong, there are many champs with more raw power), but because of the teamwork she enables.

Because her strength is team oriented, you are also seeing she can be deal with by team counterplay. Moscow 5 used Zyra mid to punish dives, and trounced Azubu Frost's Diana led initiations.

So think about that before you complain about her being picked and banned so often.


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Pulsefire Vi

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Member

12-01-2012

Diana is also countered by tanky champions who can survive burst casters while dealing damage themselves.

Aka, Swain, Mordekaiser, and Mid AP cho.


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Glyphz

Senior Member

12-01-2012

You shouldn't ever take anything too seriously over 1 tournament.

Kennen was constantly picked/banned for awhile and then nerfed his range by 25, and now he's never picked at all. Competitive play has it's fotm too !


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DeciEVE or AFK

Member

12-01-2012

There are (one to two) champs with more raw power, but don't have the survivability of a double-refreshing shield, and a double-refreshing ult.

Diana singlehandedly makes other AP assassins that aren't Katarina (i.e. Akali, LeBlanc, Fizz) completely obsolete because she does equivalent damage, costs laughable amounts of mana, and is one of the tankiest champs in the game, not just from her ludicrously imbalanced base stats and near non-existent cooldowns, but the numbers on her shield (which also has an offensive capability to it as well).

The fact she (and Katarina, to an extent) was picked/banned as much as she was doesn't prove anything except she is retardedly strong and puts every other champion in her role to shame, and they really need to look at balancing these retardedly strong champs, or bring the weaker ones up to par before releasing even more champs into the mix.


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ShiznazTM

Senior Member

12-01-2012

Diana is also incredibly tanky compared to real assassins.


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Logmore

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Senior Member

12-01-2012

That kind of sounds like the old Smite/Revive jungle Eve with a stealth stun.

Good, easy enough to counter, but the effort needed to do so made it easier to ban her. She mostly required coordination from teammates to actually do what she was supposed to do, because jungle Eve wasn't killing anyone solo early in the game.


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Levgre

Senior Member

12-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeciEVE or AFK View Post
There are (one to two) champs with more raw power, but don't have the survivability of a double-refreshing shield, and a double-refreshing ult.

Diana singlehandedly makes other AP assassins (Akali, LeBlanc, Fizz) completely obsolete because she does equivalent damage, costs laughable amounts of mana, and is one of the tankiest champs in the game, not just from her ludicrously imbalanced base stats, but the numbers on her shield (which also has an offensive capability to it as well).

The fact she (and Katarina, to an extent) was picked/banned as much as she was doesn't prove anything except she is retardedly strong and puts every other champion in her role to shame.
Sorry bud, but you are pretty ignorant.

Her shield and ult are DESIGNED around being refreshed. Her ult is EXCEPTIONALLY weak damage without a refresh. Like, the damage of a normal, non-ult ability. It's not like a Karthus or Katarina ult being refreshed. Same with her shield, if it never refreshed it would be a very weak ability. Fyi, if Diana dives she often does not get a double shield, because it immediately refreshes once the 3 orbs are consumed. Meaning the 'first half' is immediately destroyed.

Akali, LeBlanc, and Fizz are all actually quite strong in their own ways, they have advantages over Diana. They just lack late game viability, because they don't have a mechanism like Nocturne's and Diana's long range gap closers.

Diana didn't make Akali, LeBlanc, and Fizz obsolete. They were obsolete long before Diana came around.


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DeciEVE or AFK

Member

12-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levgre View Post
Sorry bud, but you are pretty ignorant.

Her shield and ult are DESIGNED around being refreshed. Her ult is EXCEPTIONALLY weak damage without a refresh. Like, the damage of a normal, non-ult ability. It's not like a Karthus or Katarina ult being refreshed. Same with her shield, if it never refreshed it would be a very weak ability. Fyi, if Diana dives she often does not get a double shield, because it immediately refreshes once the 3 orbs are consumed. Meaning the 'first half' is immediately destroyed.

Akali, LeBlanc, and Fizz are all actually quite strong in their own ways, they have advantages over Diana. They just lack late game viability, because they don't have a mechanism like Nocturne's and Diana's long range gap closers.

Diana didn't make Akali, LeBlanc, and Fizz obsolete. They were obsolete long before Diana came around.
Oh man where to start..
1. Her ult, like you said, has 900 range, and it exists, even without the refresh, on a 12-sec cooldown, with basically no mana cost. All she has to do is ult -> shield for triple explosion goodness -> vacuum and she's done her role in a teamfight. Notice I left out the auto-refreshing R and her Q completely because those are just a cherry on top.
2. Her shield, even if it's 'immediately destroyed', doesn't take away the fact she still gets it twice, regardless how quickly it goes down.
3. The 3 I mentioned have nuanced advantages that might mesh well with certain playstyles, but in terms of hard numbers and pure utility in a kit, they just don't compare, and picking them when Diana is available is equivalent to trollpicking, in terms of what they offer for a team vs Diana.
4. They were only obsolete once nerfed to oblivion when they had their QQ - phase and Riot kneejerk reacted and obliterated either their kits directly (i.e. Akali), or items that they use (i.e. Deathfire grasp). If they were in the same state they were a few months ago, they'd be more than viable.

It's the fact that they were hypernuked, and then this retarded champion comes along who does EXACTLY what they did before the nerfs.


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Levgre

Senior Member

12-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeciEVE or AFK View Post
Oh man where to start..
1. Her ult, like you said, has 900 range, and it exists, even without the refresh, on a 12-sec cooldown, with basically no mana cost. All she has to do is ult -> shield for triple explosion goodness -> vacuum and she's done her role in a teamfight. Notice I left out the auto-refreshing R and her Q completely because those are just a cherry on top.
2. Her shield, even if it's 'immediately destroyed', doesn't take away the fact she still gets it twice, regardless how quickly it goes down.
3. The 3 I mentioned have nuanced advantages that might mesh well with certain playstyles, but in terms of hard numbers and pure utility in a kit, they just don't compare, and picking them when Diana is available is equivalent to trollpicking, in terms of what they offer for a team vs Diana.
4. They were only obsolete once nerfed to oblivion when they had their QQ - phase and Riot kneejerk reacted and obliterated either their kits directly (i.e. Akali), or items that they use (i.e. Deathfire grasp). If they were in the same state they were a few months ago, they'd be more than viable.

It's the fact that they were hypernuked, and then this retarded champion comes along who does EXACTLY what they did before the nerfs.
Actually, the cooldown on her ult is 25/20/15, get your facts straight. And even if she gets down to 12 seconds with some CDR, that is a VERY long time in a late game teamfight for a normal damage ability.

Damage comparisons have been done between Akali and Diana, and they've been found to be extremely similar in damage output, with both having some pros and cons. You can't say Akali is weak, because many players get 60% win rates with her at higher elos.

Fact is, if Diana was as mind-numbingly strong as you WANT to believe, she would be above a 52% win rate. Evelynn actually currently has a higher win rate than Diana. As does Twisted Fate and Shaco, some other assassins.

Diana's mana costs are not negligent, either, you can run out very fast without mana sustain items. And to get the full strength out of her ult (2 uses), you need 160 mana at highest rank. Orianna's ult is 150 mana at high rank. Eve's is a flat 100. So this 'strength' you claim of Diana's is actually a weakness.


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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

12-01-2012

akali, leblanc, talon were all big picks in tournies at times.

there's a reason why the "viable assassins" don't last too long.


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