Tiamat/Ravenous Hydra - Transforming champs

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67chrome

Senior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IonDragonX View Post
Yeah. Bankplank is a build. Hydra, Shiv and Avarice Blade. Run in a circle until the Shiv charges then blast a huge group of creep. His bonus money for his Parrrley counts for each creep that dies in the area of effect. Good times.
I thought Tiamat didn't grant gold bonuses with the splash damage.

New Tiamat totally does though, just tested it in PBE. Splash damage kills works with the new Avarice Blade to. That feeling when you see +30 floating above your head from last-hitting 3 creeps with Tiamat Splash Parrley.

Poor Nausus only gets 1 kill stack each time he uses Siphoning Strike though.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post
I thought Tiamat didn't grant gold bonuses with the splash damage.

New Tiamat totally does though, just tested it in PBE. Splash damage kills works with the new Avarice Blade to. That feeling when you see +30 floating above your head from last-hitting 3 creeps with Tiamat Splash Parrley.

Poor Nausus only gets 1 kill stack each time he uses Siphoning Strike though.
You are exactly right. In season 2, you can do the same thing with Tiamat and Ionic Spark. However, it is just too ineffective. And there is no Avarice Blade boost.


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wee little panda

Junior Member

12-03-2012

When it refers to attacks with melee champs are we talking only attacks that apply on hits?

Like Kha'zix's w, Rengar's e, Pantheon's q, Zed's q...

You see where I'm going with this... I'm thinking it doesn't affect them but I was just wondering because the wording is vague as it only states attacks and I know that Riot is changing a few items like the new Tears and their subsequent upgrades to include all mana expenditure. So I just wanted to see if it really worked on all attacks from a melee character or if it were just on-hit applying abilities and basic attacks.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by wee little panda View Post
When it refers to attacks with melee champs are we talking only attacks that apply on hits?

Like Kha'zix's w, Rengar's Q, Pantheon's q, Zed's q...

You see where I'm going with this... I'm thinking it doesn't affect them but I was just wondering because the wording is vague as it only states attacks and I know that Riot is changing a few items like the new Tears and their subsequent upgrades to include all mana expenditure. So I just wanted to see if it really worked on all attacks from a melee character or if it were just on-hit applying abilities and basic attacks.
Kha'Zix uses a melee range spell, so it doesnt trigger Hydra. Panth and Zed only have spells so they don't trigger Hydra.

Rengar's Q is an auto attack enhancer, so DOES trigger Hydra. It is currently unknown if the bonus damage from his Q is applied to the splash damage in any way. It is nearly impossible to test it out. I imagine that the splash damage only cares about your AD and ignores any bonus damage.


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Exadin

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Ok so the way i thnk the items work is like this: Jayce with a hydra has the life steal, health regen, and attack dmg in both stances but only gets the splash dmg when in hammer stance. What if Jayce has a Hurrican? His ranged stance auto attacks (and his W) its an attack modifier if im not misstaken) will have the bolts split out and hit 2 additional targets. He will have the increased attack speed in both forms though. Melee or not. This goes for Nid and Elise (I don't know why every one forgets about her shes my favorite of the 3 and shes very powerful if played correctly) as well for both items. As for hydra it will proc with any attack that applies on hit affects. Such as IonDragonX stated. GP's parrley, Rengars Q, Nasus's Q, etc, but they must be a MELEE champs regardless if they have a ranged ability they must be melee auto attackers. So Ezreal couldn't get a proc with his Q sense hes a ranged auto attack.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exadim View Post
Ok so the way i thnk the items work is like this: Jayce with a hydra has the life steal, health regen, and attack dmg in both stances but only gets the splash dmg when in hammer stance.
Correct
Quote:
What if Jayce has a Hurrican? His ranged stance auto attacks (and his W) its an attack modifier if im not misstaken) will have the bolts split out and hit 2 additional targets. He will have the increased attack speed in both forms though. Melee or not.
Correct
Quote:
This goes for Nid and Elise (I don't know why every one forgets about her shes my favorite of the 3 and shes very powerful if played correctly) as well for both items.
Correct but Elise is terrible without AP items.
Quote:
As for hydra it will proc with any attack that applies on hit affects. Such as IonDragonX stated. GP's parrley, Rengars Q, Nasus's Q, etc, but they must be a MELEE champs regardless if they have a ranged ability they must be melee auto attackers. So Ezreal couldn't get a proc with his Q sense hes a ranged auto attack.
Correct

Two other points:
1) Nasus's Q specifically will only grow in damage from the kill of the TARGET. Splash kills will not make it grow. This is counter to Gangplanks Q, which does keep its award for splash kills.
2) Kayle's E switches her to a ranged champ for its duration. So she can technically use both items. However, the E's splash damage is technically an "on-hit spell cast" (very convoluted, I know) so a hurricane will not cause three explosions in a tight grouping. (That would be OP anyways)


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67chrome

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IonDragonX View Post
1) Nasus's Q specifically will only grow in damage from the kill of the TARGET. Splash kills will not make it grow. This is counter to Gangplanks Q, which does keep its award for splash kills.
Actually that's not quite right with Nasusu's Siphoning Strike. If you kill a target with the splash but don't kill the primary target he still gets the +3 permanent damage boost (Just tested it out). You just don't get more than one +3 regardless of how many things you kill with it, so it's more the ability has a cap that only rewards you once rather than ignoring what's going on with the splash damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wee little panda View Post
When it refers to attacks with melee champs are we talking only attacks that apply on hits?

Like Kha'zix's w, Rengar's e, Pantheon's q, Zed's q...

You see where I'm going with this... I'm thinking it doesn't affect them but I was just wondering because the wording is vague as it only states attacks and I know that Riot is changing a few items like the new Tears and their subsequent upgrades to include all mana expenditure. So I just wanted to see if it really worked on all attacks from a melee character or if it were just on-hit applying abilities and basic attacks.
You should probably check LoL Wiki to understand the middle ground between attacks and abilities more thoroughly because you seem to be confusing them. But the short answer is that it only works with auto-attacks and not abilities, except in very special cases. And abilities that deal physical damage and look physical in nature isn't one of those special cases.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post
Actually that's not quite right with Nasusu's Siphoning Strike. If you kill a target with the splash but don't kill the primary target he still gets the +3 permanent damage boost (Just tested it out). You just don't get more than one +3 regardless of how many things you kill with it, so it's more the ability has a cap that only rewards you once rather than ignoring what's going on with the splash damage.
Ah. That, I didn't know. I did want people to know that they can't farm his Q to insane levels by exploiting a Hydra because I do know that he can't.

Quote:
But the short answer is that it only works with auto-attacks and not abilities, except in very special cases. And abilities that deal physical damage and look physical in nature isn't one of those special cases.
I'm having a hard time making up a "shortest answer" for these items. Here's the best I can do.
Hydra: damage splashes when you auto-attack.
Hurricane: omgwtfbbq (Obviously, I know how all of it works. It is just too much to explain quickly)


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wee little panda

Junior Member

12-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IonDragonX View Post
Kha'Zix uses a melee range spell, so it doesnt trigger Hydra. Panth and Zed only have spells so they don't trigger Hydra.

Rengar's Q is an auto attack enhancer, so DOES trigger Hydra. It is currently unknown if the bonus damage from his Q is applied to the splash damage in any way. It is nearly impossible to test it out. I imagine that the splash damage only cares about your AD and ignores any bonus damage.
i meant rengar's e.

was mad tired when i posted.but i think i get the idea.


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Zilther

Junior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhailRaptor View Post
And now you can tell how often I play Kayle ^.^"
But you were correct in saying Righteous Fury, since that is Kayle's E. Haha


:/ Shows how much everyone plays Kayle.


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