Who counters AP Yi the hardest?

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Shuddy

Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
=P

A large part of design isn't in the design itself, but in anticipating how players will react. Basic human instinct; if you touch something hot, you flinch and pull your hand back as a reflex. Same thing works in games; if an enemy burst caster (which AP Yi falls under) bursts you hard, you back off instinctively out of a sense of fear, ignoring the fact that all their damage is now on cooldown and it's the safest possible time to press them when they have nothing to shoot back with.

This is why you should never bother focusing fire on someone like Veigar after he's done his initial burst in a team fight. Alright, his ultimate's down, his Q stings but isn't that threatening, and his stun won't be up for 20+ seconds, and no one's likely to be nailed with dark matter unless they're rooted the entire time. That initial combo of his will melt someone's face off, but if he actually pulls it off, he's limited to just the occasional light poke for the rest of the fight, and MIGHT get to use his stun twice if it drags on into a chase, in which case he's easily killed anyway once they're running since he waddles so slowly.

Everything comes down to anticipating how players will act, more so than anything else. It doesn't matter if something is "actually" overpowered or not, so much as whether players will actually take advantage of it. AP Yi certainly isn't overpowered, even under ideal circumstances, but he goes against what normal people do. The standard generic "metagolem" **** that goes on here will cause most people to just fling their normal mids at him mindlessly, then complain he's OP when they're countered effortlessly. Virtually anything that breaks the meta in a scary enough way will confuse most players and make them panic. Unfortunately for us, AP Yi is remarkably easy to play as, and requires logical thought as to how to beat him rather than doing the same ol' same ol' generic meta play. This means that, no matter what we do to advise people, you and I both know this is a train wreck waiting to happen which will inevitably lead to AP Yi being nerfed because regular players won't be able to figure out how to bypass the problem.

Don't play the meta blindly, and you stand better odd of winning. Use champions no one understands and you'll wreck face until it catches on. Confusion and chaos are your greatest allies in a heated fight.

Instead, we'll have someone actually read this, try to pick a counter like AP Sion mid, or Karma, get yelled at for breaking the meta, and will just get trolled and reported for it. And so, Yi will continue to smack people around because his primary counters are "troll builds", such as APC Soraka.

Sad, but true. Oh well. At least we've warned people. Now we can sit there smugly and go "I told you so =P ".

Not that I'd ever do that. >.>;;




EDIT: Oh I forgot to mention; the higher ELO players aren't just "better" due to things like warding, positioning, itemization and so on. It's often mostly because of things like understanding team compositions, or training themselves to remain cool under pressure rather than freaking out when things go wrong. The newbie eats an AP Yi alpha strike to the face and is scared so they run away until it's off cooldown again. The veteran realizes he has nothing left but a subpar autoattack and unloads on him, then takes a tower hit to interrupt his heal, leaving them all the time in the world to farm. This also has to be taken into account when designing something; you need to understand that something that works fine at one skill level won't be nearly as effective at another. Playing support is great at high level, but sucks at low levels. Playing Tryndamere is the reverse. Player psychology is one of the most important things to understand when building anything game related =3
I actually want to do this post justice with a decent reply, so I'll post back tomorrow after some sleep. In the mean time, forwarding this on to some friends (one's a mathematician, one does computer modelling of gene sequences, another is a programmer, I'm sure you understand why they'd love this kind of discussion :P).


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Katsuni

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuddy View Post
I actually want to do this post justice with a decent reply, so I'll post back tomorrow after some sleep. In the mean time, forwarding this on to some friends (one's a mathematician, one does computer modelling of gene sequences, another is a programmer, I'm sure you understand why they'd love this kind of discussion :P).
I can think of a few reasons, though how accurate they'd be, I'm not sure, as they could have other motivations =3

In terms of things like mathematics, I'd wager statistical damage output over time on Veigar, would probably find this of interest. For the gene sequencing, this implies comprehension of Dawkings' model and such of gene selection, which would probably enjoy the bit about the instinctive reactions. For the programmer, I'd honestly almost suggest this entire discussion could have been broken down into boolean gate sequences if you were bored enough =P

Still, these are rough guesses on virtually no information, so are probably wrong XD After all, basing stuff on stereotypes and that their jobs dictate their lives (I'm a game designer, but it doesn't mean I'm not fairly well versed in genetics, physics, psychology or linguistics... despite the double negative in this sentence... but we'll pretend that didn't happen), is kind of silly.

Regardless, thanks, I'll bookmark this to look forwards to such ^.^


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Nero2525

Junior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine Tog View Post
Basically, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ-pB...bedded#t=2162s (Just the last minute or two of the video was crazy enough).
oh thanks, wow fed is an understatement...


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MugenNightmare

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Ignite haha, but if Alistar could go mid that be amazing.

Gallo comes to mind


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Death916

Junior Member

11-30-2012

Morde has a permanent hold on yi's ghost past 6. Super Ghost Yi tower pushes FTW.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

11-30-2012

hard CC.


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zuark

Senior Member

11-30-2012

playing AP Yi against AP Soraka once was enough to dissuade me from ever trying to play AP Yi ever again.

Ever.


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Sabsy

Senior Member

11-30-2012

malzahar counters him hard, long silence that you can position and time for when his alpha strike ends if he meditates you can drop your pool on hims silence and supress GG.


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ChubiPanda

Junior Member

11-30-2012

i have shut down ap yi with lux pretty hard because of her double shield and snare


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Katsuni

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuark View Post
playing AP Yi against AP Soraka once was enough to dissuade me from ever trying to play AP Yi ever again.

Ever.
Told'ja so =P