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Season 3 Masteries - Arbitrary, Useless Stats

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hardyharhar6

Junior Member

11-29-2012

The out of combat speed mastery in utility seems silly. If people are planning to roam a lot, whether they are junglers w/ Oracle's etc. they will just grab normal movement 5 boots (forget if it's on the enchantment or not). Since they removed the old early-tree speed mastery this in turn hurts champs that need IN-COMBAT speed to be successful.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-29-2012

Quote:
hardyharhar6:
The out of combat speed mastery in utility seems silly. If people are planning to roam a lot, whether they are junglers w/ Oracle's etc. they will just grab normal movement 5 boots (forget if it's on the enchantment or not). Since they removed the old early-tree speed mastery this in turn hurts champs that need IN-COMBAT speed to be successful.

Yet they put in a purchasable in-combat speed boost that anyone can buy. Its called Furor.
The Wanderer mastery is good. It gets a lot more use when you are winning rather than losing.


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The 4th Triumvir

Member

11-29-2012

Obviously the OP doesn't quite understand the purposes of runes and masteries. Runes give noticeable benefits to your champion, whereas Masteries give a much smaller boost to champions, but they are more varied and can provide benefits which runes cannot, such as giving you a Total Biscuit or passive Tenacity. The masteries are not meant so that you will be at a huge advantage, just a tiny bump. Unlike runes where you can definitely notice the difference when now you have +15 AD at level 1. Also, unlike runes, masteries are free and only require that you level up to get more points, whereas runes require IP and take significantly longer to obtain.

TL;DR - OP is a moron because masteries aren't supposed to give a very noticeable boost, otherwise they would be far too overpowered.


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Izisery

Recruiter

11-29-2012

I dislike the 'biscuit' and early ward masteries,even on a support they're pretty useless. They only last 60 seconds, and don't heal that much, you're better off buying pots. If I took these masteries it would be because I would want to be able to -not- have to buy pots and wards early, so I could take boots an items, but they aren't a replacement at all.

as far as the vision ward mastery, I would like it much better if it worked similar to the new clairvoyance, where if a person kills your ward it gives you vision on them for a few seconds.


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King Roofus

Recruiter

11-30-2012

Quote:
lnrael:


Hint hint, this is the new top lane mastery for freezing lane, just requires 21 into defensive masteries. Very strong if only because of this effect.


...because 3% less damage taken is good for tanking minion damage? The 6 armor will help you more early game. So will the other masteries going down the tree.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Armageddon2099:
Yeah, small % movespeed boosts are fine. Just not as the pinnacle of a tree or with an asinine stipulation like being out of combat. For example, initiator wasn't too terrible because you're going to spend most of the game at 70% or above health (unless you're doing horribly poor). How often are you going to be out of combat? Remember, this applies to auto attacks you do against minions as well, so even when you last hit the speed is gone.

But, think about it. If they removed that stipulation on the Wanderer mastery, the top of the tree and the bottom of the tree only have a 1% difference. 1% MS difference from what is supposed to be the best mastery on the tree and what is supposed to be the least impactful.


It seems you don't know the meaning of 3% MS.
3% MS and 5% XP werer the reasons why most people sued the utility tree back in S1. These small numbers are huge actually.
In the offense tree you can easily increase your overall DPS as an ADC by around 15+% early game and even more late game. that amount is huge actually.
Masteries are not there to give make all your base stats and early items ignoreable, cause the masteries are better than boots + 2 dorans + runes.

Masteries allow you to lane against your counters. Masteries allow you to change you playstyle. Runes do the same. They are equal in strength. Runes have a higher impact early (if you take no scaling runes). Masteries normally have a bigger overall impact.

The old masteries (S2) where what made the top lane and laning overall so much worse (11 into defense). It was their huge impact that made pro players hate them cause you needed to take certain onse.

It were always these small values that made some masteries OP.
3% MS for 3 points, 15 sec lower flash CD for one and 5% XP for 4. What is that? It is a won lane and a possible snowball if you are a good player.
8 points were so significant that it was standard on a lot of champs in S1. 8 weak points together changed the meta.
In S2 it were only 4 points (4 less dmg from creeps).

How can so small little points have such a huge impact? Cause every 5 MS and every 1 AD matters when it comes to this game.
Getting lvl 2 5 sec more early than your enemy can mean a won lane and possible snowballing after that.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Izisery:
I dislike the 'biscuit' and early ward masteries,even on a support they're pretty useless. They only last 60 seconds, and don't heal that much, you're better off buying pots. If I took these masteries it would be because I would want to be able to -not- have to buy pots and wards early, so I could take boots an items, but they aren't a replacement at all.

as far as the vision ward mastery, I would like it much better if it worked similar to the new clairvoyance, where if a person kills your ward it gives you vision on them for a few seconds.


There were actualyl al lot of pro top laners and junglers that said they will start with udtility and the extra pot + ward cause it is so strong early game. It allows you to have a significant advantage over your enemy till the first time B (and then you get a lvl and CS advantage when he goes B more early).
Every point is worth 25g at least, what is (like the +25 starting gold) very strong early on.


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Admiral Will

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Good points. some are strong and some aren't. Most impressive one I saw was 10% crit rate for melees.


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NecroSolaris

Junior Member

11-30-2012

I have to agree with most of this but I have 2 major issues #1 is that the offense tree looks like someone snapped it in half, #2 my favorite tree(utility) is much better BUT it still feels awkward for none mana-users, also who why can't the limit be moved one less or something because right now I see people still "wasting points in things they don't want or need, for instance the change in the movement speed mastery (the on affected by combat" I see no reason to ever put points into it when you can just go down 21 (which ins't nice for the 3%) anyway you need to really look at those mastery's mentioned above and fiddle with the % and stuff because if things that give AP or AD are high in the tree they should give you more

Seriously Riot, I know there aren't an infinite number of you but at least listen and understand that you need to listen to us at least a little


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Komeiji Koishi

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Let me give my personal run-down of the mastery tree.

First off, I realize that masteries are not supposed to make as important an impact on the game as the Runes that you paid IP for do, and they are in general supposed to assist those newer players climbing toward level 30 an idea of what direction they'd like to go in with their build, but not necessarily give them an advantage just because of level difference. Secondly, each mastery tree as a whole is much more noticeable in level 30s normals with its free stats than the micro-examination of each individual mastery point is, over those who might not have a tree of course.

However, this does not mean that said individual masteries should be as stale and boring as the ones in Seasons 1 and 2 by just giving free stats (read: Bladed Armor and Artificer).

1. Sorcery and Fury seems quite a strong start to the tree, perhaps even abusable(!) by certain champions like AD casters who still go for attack speed in some cases (Jax, Jarvan, Irelia, Shaco, Urgot, Wukong, Yorick and even Diana or Orianna).
2. Never liked the 1.5% extra damage from Havoc, because it's completely unnoticeable even with full build APC or ADC (including IE) and Executioner spec'ed. Hopefully with the slight buffs the new mastery might see more use.
3. Lethality into Fury is a pretty strong combo on RADC and even some melee crit ADs (Shaco and Panth).
4. Spellsword goes great with Lichbane and champs who benefit from Lichbane.
5. Executioner is fine, even with the "less than 50% target HP" caveat, it's still a great mastery to top the tree off, especially when combined with Ignite's true damage (see their synergy in early to lategame power).
6. Defender is strong because it is situational: it all depends entirely on your positioning in a teamfight to get the most benefit out of it. Though I'd prefer it was damage reduction.
7. I'd rather have Relentless or Tenacious top the defense mastery tree off than the 3% damage reduction from Honor Guard, since a) Tenacity is an extremely valuable and rare stack because of its lack of stacking power, and b) unless you're going to do maths throughout all stages of the game to check the efficiency of Honor Guard, it seems like another pointless stale stat they just threw on to the top. For the lane freezing argument for Honor Guard, you can achieve the same simply with Runes and spec'ing into Hardiness and Veteran's. It's simply not worth it.
8. Wanderer is only useful for getting back to lane, and even then it saves 2 seconds at most; it's entirely worthless otherwise when you're in combat. Like Good Hands, if you're not dying a lot and staying in lane last hitting or harassing without taking damage for 20 minutes straight, why bother with this mastery?
9. For Scout, I'd rather have the old 5% additional sight at all times than the 25% wards would give for the first 5 seconds of their entire lifespan. By the time you put the ward down and see the enemy jungler coming at you with the 25% extra sight, he's already on top of you. But I suppose that's up to personal opinion.
10. Explorer is very powerful because it essentially gives you an extra 25g ward at the start of the game, in addition to the standard support 3 wards (or sightstone later).
11. Again, I'd rather have Mastermind at the top of the tree because summoner spell cooldowns are an important issue for me, more so than the 3% negligible movespeed. See the reasoning I gave for Honor Guard.