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Season 3 Masteries - Arbitrary, Useless Stats

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Prince Kassad

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Quote:
Armageddon2099:
TL;DR: Mastery trees are still ****ty and now even the top of the trees suck.


You realize masteries are not supposed to have a large impact on the game, right? And by saying that EVERY tree is ****ty, you are basically saying they are balanced. So whats the problem? Would you be happy if masteries were ridiculously strong, so that everyone starts out with a BF sword if they want to? Because then your opponents are still going to get the same amount of masteries, so it's not really going to impact anything. If they doubled or even tripled the stats on all of the masteries, it would have virtually no impact on the game other than making jungling really easy at higher summoner levels and screwing over people who accidently use the wrong mastery page. Masteries are just supposed to be a fun little thing you do to customize your champion and get a head start on your build. Since everyone has the same mastery options, and you clearly have terrible math skills, you should probably be HAPPY that masteries are weak or everyone else would become comparatively stronger because they would probably choose better masteries than you.

tl;dr You should put more time into thinking and less time into complaining.


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Jaigar

Senior Member

11-27-2012

I like the new trees, and I actually like that a utility mastery, life steal, got moved into the utility tree.

There are several champs who could stand to benefit by going deep into the utility tree. Yes, you lose offensive stats or defensive stats, but you are trading it for utility. If you go into wealth, you can actually start the game with crystalline flask+ cloth armor. If you are really ballsy, you can go all the way to 21 points into utility. I just hopped on Jax with 21 points into Utility: I move 376 without boots (thats with 4.5% MS from quints as well).

Also, utility =/= support.


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Armageddon2099

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Quote:
Prince Kassad:
Are you high? How is a 2% damage increase not useful? It scales with your base ability damages, making it very strong on mages and AD champions like Graves that have high-damage spells.

Also, most AD carries should have around 150 attack damage by level 11 or 12 .. so the havoc mastery AT A MINIMUM is effectively as good as the falt AD masteries by the time midgame comes...except it also effects the base damages on your abilities and item actives. By late game, a 2% damage increase is at least five times stronger than 3 AD on just about every champion.


I never said they weren't useful. Even 1 AD is useful. Doesn't mean it's significant and that placing points elsewhere isn't smarter.


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Armageddon2099

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Quote:
Prince Kassad:
You realize masteries are not supposed to have a large impact on the game, right? And by saying that EVERY tree is ****ty, you are basically saying they are balanced. So whats the problem? Would you be happy if masteries were ridiculously strong, so that everyone starts out with a BF sword if they want to? Because then your opponents are still going to get the same amount of masteries, so it's not really going to impact anything. If they doubled or even tripled the stats on all of the masteries, it would have virtually no impact on the game other than making jungling really easy at higher summoner levels and screwing over people who accidently use the wrong mastery page. Masteries are just supposed to be a fun little thing you do to customize your champion and get a head start on your build. Since everyone has the same mastery options, and you clearly have terrible math skills, you should probably be HAPPY that masteries are weak or everyone else would become comparatively stronger because they would probably choose better masteries than you.

tl;dr You should put more time into thinking and less time into complaining.



I put plenty of time and thought into my post. You, on the other hand, are resorting to hyperboles. Just because a mastery effects the game, doesn't mean it has to be OP. See Pickpocket and the Biscuiter->Explorer. They effect the game a lot, yet are very clearly not OP. They are interesting, yet not complicated/too small to notice a change.


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FullMetalSnorlax

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Quote:
Armageddon2099:
TL;DR: Mastery trees are still ****ty and now even the top of the trees suck.


So lets see, your problem is that season 2 masteries made a small impact, and now season 3 masteries will also make a small impact. Season 1 masteries I may add also made a small impact (except for the 1 or 2 broken ones that Riot intentionaly removed).

Ever stop to think that maybe they aren't supposed to make a huge impact on the game? If they did new players that are only 3 levels ahead of who they get matched with would be pubstomping, and Items wouldn't be as big a deal. Runes and mastereis exits to diversify the early game so 2 champs aren't nessisarily the same at early levels. Note Riot mentioning they wanted people to have more mastery opptions for building AD carries different ways, this helps create more variety.

The only masteries that effect late game are at the end of the tree for people who abslolutly devote to their end builds. Although the blast and sorssery change kind of go's against this. But otherwise all of the stuff at the end of the Tree is % based so dont go "1.25% dosen't give you much early game" because it is a late game statistic.

Lastly I dont know where to put this so I'll just say it here: flat stats (brute force, mental force exc't) were moved dow in the tree becaus they were too effective where they were before.
EX: why bother building offence when I can just take 3-4 points for all of the early game damage, then buy items for late game damage?


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Soiyeruda

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Imo, I think you're exaggerating how "useless" the trees are by only choosing to look at individual components instead of the tree as a whole. For example, going 21 points down the defense tree in a particular manner can grant you:

- 138 health (140 with % max health)
- 11 armor and MR (assuming 100 of each and 5 enemy champions near you)
- 1.5% max health
- -3% damage from all sources
- 15% tenacity

I don't know about you, but that's a lot of free stats. You sound like you want double those to make the tree feel worth it.


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Armageddon2099

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Quote:
FullMetalSnorlax:
So lets see, your problem is that season 2 masteries made a small impact, and now season 3 masteries will also make a small impact. Season 1 masteries I may add also made a small impact (except for the 1 or 2 broken ones that Riot intentionaly removed).

Ever stop to think that maybe they aren't supposed to make a huge impact on the game? If they did new players that are only 3 levels ahead of who they get matched with would be pubstomping, and Items wouldn't be as big a deal. Runes and mastereis exits to diversify the early game so 2 champs aren't nessisarily the same at early levels. Note Riot mentioning they wanted people to have more mastery opptions for building AD carries different ways, this helps create more variety.

The only masteries that effect late game are at the end of the tree for people who abslolutly devote to their end builds. Although the blast and sorssery change kind of go's against this. But otherwise all of the stuff at the end of the Tree is % based so dont go "1.25% dosen't give you much early game" because it is a late game statistic.

Lastly I dont know where to put this so I'll just say it here: flat stats (brute force, mental force exc't) were moved dow in the tree becaus they were too effective where they were before.
EX: why bother building offence when I can just take 3-4 points for all of the early game damage, then buy items for late game damage?



Again, not asking for OP huge changes to the game. Just more like Pickpocket and Biscuiter. Ones that are interesting and not just boring flat stats and arbitrary % stats. 1.25 doesn't give you much ALL game. 12.5 at 1000. Maybe people like these tiny little stats, but I don't care for them and I think they make for ****ty pinnacles of the mastery trees. Riot said they wanted to reward/encourage players to put 21 points into a given tree. This is not the way to do that. And again, I understand why they moved the flat stats down, but I don't understand why they didn't buff them a bit to compensate.


Quote:
Soiyeruda:
Imo, I think you're exaggerating how "useless" the trees are by only choosing to look at individual components instead of the tree as a whole. For example, going 21 points down the defense tree in a particular manner can grant you:

- 138 health (140 with % max health)
- 11 armor and MR (assuming 100 of each and 5 enemy champions near you)
- 1.5% max health
- -3% damage from all sources
- 15% tenacity

I don't know about you, but that's a lot of free stats. You sound like you want double those to make the tree feel worth it.


I know they add up. I know that they look good with them all added up. I'd still much rather have a few good stat masteries and then actually interesting masteries like Pickpocket. As it stands right now, we got maybe 4 masteries that actually are new/interesting and not boring as **** flat stats. Instead, we got this way too ****in similar tree that's going to put people into flux (then again maybe not, these trees are too similar) for a while until people try them out and find the most optimal path. Riot tried to change this with the items, but completely ignored the mastery side, which has gotten just as stale.


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Jaigar

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Quote:
Soiyeruda:
Imo, I think you're exaggerating how "useless" the trees are by only choosing to look at individual components instead of the tree as a whole. For example, going 21 points down the defense tree in a particular manner can grant you:

- 138 health (140 with % max health)
- 11 armor and MR (assuming 100 of each and 5 enemy champions near you)
- 1.5% max health
- -3% damage from all sources
- 15% tenacity

I don't know about you, but that's a lot of free stats. You sound like you want double those to make the tree feel worth it.


Its 4.5% max health and 15% Slow Resistance (seriously, dont forget this).


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Soiyeruda

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Quote:
Jaigar:
Its 4.5% max health and 15% Slow Resistance (seriously, dont forget this).

I said one particular path down the defense tree, assuming only 21 points. I only took one point in the 1.5% max health and considered 7.5% slow resist a "throwaway stat", albeit, a good throwaway stat.


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SKT1 WalterWhite

Junior Member

11-27-2012

it took me forever to read all of this, all i have to say is wow. all of you make great points i don't know whether to like the masteries or hate them haha. im defiantly supporting this thread