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Bye bye Avarice blade

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Fox P McCloud

Senior Member

11-27-2012

I have no doubt this item needed a nerf, I just have a problem that they're pushing this into a last-hitting reward item that requires near perfect CS to take advantage of, especially considering this is the weakest of the GP10 trio; it would be better, IMO, if it was just 4-5 gold per 10 and nothing more, 3 gold per 10 with the +2 (meh), or 4 gold per 10 with +1 per minion kill, it would be "decent".

Quote:
IonDragonX:
I was referring to the season 2 Avarice Blade, which was 750 gold, 12% crit and 5g/10s.


I know, but the price is still the same, which was what I was minorly quabbling about.


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Zoram

Senior Member

11-27-2012

I honestly thought gangplank might be okay to use top by making this item as a risk vs.reward pick to supress your early game power in exchange for even better gold gain. Not anymore I guess! Now I'll never buy this item ever.


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DNeon

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Quote:
Fox P McCloud:
I have no doubt this item needed a nerf, I just have a problem that they're pushing this into a last-hitting reward item that requires near perfect CS to take advantage of, especially considering this is the weakest of the GP10 trio; it would be better, IMO, if it was just 4-5 gold per 10 and nothing more, 3 gold per 10 with the +2 (meh), or 4 gold per 10 with +1 per minion kill, it would be "decent".


I agree with you here. It's the least singularly powerful GP10 and it's niche, it was just being abused for megafarm. I think they've just looked at it and said 'it's giving too much gold, so lets decrease that' rather than looking at the actual problem it was creating.

The biggest problem I have with this is that it's the opposite of what you want from a GP10. You don't get it when you're behind and need to keep up, you get it when you're ahead and can CS freely. It's just gonna make certain champs able to snowball easier. It's a crappy GP10, but it's a great farming item. Farming items are boring and limited and make the game passive.


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Soiyeruda

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Bump it up to 3g/10s. Imo, 4g/10s was too strong with the +2 per kill, as you only really needed to get at least half the cs in a lane to out gain a philosopher's stone.


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Xillius

Senior Member

11-27-2012

gp items arent intended to be a gold source. the gold is just an added bonus you get for wanting the item it builds into


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-27-2012

Quote:
Fox P McCloud:
it would be better, IMO, if it was just 4-5 gold per 10 and nothing more, 3 gold per 10 with the +2 (meh), or 4 gold per 10 with +1 per minion kill, it would be "decent".

I'd also be happy with these or a reduction in combine cost.
Kage's combine cost is 330 and improves the stats by +25%
Philo's combine is 340 and improves the stats by +100%.
Avarice Blade is now a combine of 400 and +20%........ then nerf its passive gold (again).......
Really?


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Mysnomer

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Kiriba:
gp items arent intended to be a gold source. the gold is just an added bonus you get for wanting the item it builds into


I know, right? Then you'd have crazy stuff like supports using the gold to buy wards or something. Goodness gracious, sheer nonsense I tell you. What's next? A singing, dancing mouse with his own amusement park?


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Xyltin

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Fox P McCloud:
Courtesy of Reign of Gaming: http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/22478-pbe-changes-for-11-26-new-brand-jack-of-hearts (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/redirect.php?do=verify&redirect_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reignofgaming.net%2Fnews%2F22478-pbe-changes-for-11-26-new-brand-jack-of-hearts)

-Passive gold gain on Avarice blade reduced by 2.

This effectively means you have to get 6 CS per minute (60 CS per 10 minutes) for it to even break even with the pre-nerf passive gold gain. That's not even the bad aspect though---It requires you to get a whopping 90 per 10 minutes (9 per minute) in order to break even with the current avarice blade on live (already widely regarded as crappy).

Thought avarice blade was going to be more interesting, important, or viable in S3? They just crushed those hopes. Keep in mind this is in addition to it have -2% crit chance compared to the avarice blade on live, as well. Yes, it builds into a few new items---but there's not a single case where you'd want to build Avarice Blade first---especially now that you have to have near perfect CS for it to generate any decent gold income---something that's not going to happen top lane and is very very unlikely to happen in bot lane, as well (let's face it, it's usually only AP mids that are going to get perfect CS).


My hope is that they nerfed it to give it more stats and to shift it away from the passive g/10 to a more active stat item:
750 gold (400 + 350)
15% crit
1g/CS
Cloak of Agility removed (gets only used for IE and PD currently).

Cloak gives 15% crit for 730g.
After 20 CS you would be ahead already and it would never be a too bad investement and take the cloaks position.

And making Brawler -> Avarice -> ... makes the crit builds more effective. You don't have to wait for 730 gold to get 15% crit, but you can take 8% for 400 and upgrade it later. It makes some builds smoother.
Items like YG, Statikk and Atmas would probably need a slight rebalancing.

Philo doesn't have stats a lot of champs want later and it's upgrades and itself got nerfed (especially HP reg).
Kages hase more mid game oriented upgrades, what makes it a bit less desireable for AP champs (would still say reduce AP by 5 and reduce costs to make it even more unatractive on AP champs).
And Avarice is nothing a support normally builds. With the 2g/CS it is an item made for farm champs. But what farm champ wants to give up mor eearly game strength for some early crit? Either the crit is unimportant cause the gold gain is so strong that you get it (and then most people get it) or you need the crit on it cause the gold gain is not enough, and then nealy nobody gets it (who wants more early game crit chance except for some old school crit builds?).

That means the item is either too good or too bad. And if you try to balance it, it will be a second HoG. Great for someone that is ahead, giving him an even bigger lead (more niche like than HoG, but still useable on a lot of champs if you really only want the gold and one of the upgrades)..


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Taiyodori

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Also, don't forget that there's really no item, you'd want to build from avarice on most champions in the first place.
What was it again with the new items?
1) Atma's - for adc's no; for everyone else: most likely no, due to the atma's nerf earlier this year; (1,5% AD from max HP is in most scenarios not worth it, especially if you can't make use of the crit chance. 2% AD was fine, maybe a bit OP. 1.75% would've been enough imo!)
2) Youmuu's? - Again, mainly for melees, but besides Tryn, GP and maybe Fiora, noone can really use the crit chance.
3) Executioner's Calling - Niche item, as always. (vs. Mundo, Swain, etc.)
---> Statikk Shiv, which might serve as a better Phandom Dancer; it gives 10% less AS and 10% less critchance for 300g less (assuming you wouldn't make use of avarice at all.) Since I don't have a PBE-Acc, I can't really tell about its passive, but people said it needed even more charge time than ionic spark used to, but at least it applies on the first hit due to movement charge.

Seems not too convincing at all, since you first waste 800g on 10% crit and that's it... no sustain, no "safe" dmg-increase.


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DarkerNectron

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
CooLTanG:
Well math is near solid but here I'll lay it out:

Current Servers:
5gp10 - so 5x6 = 30g per Minute

Test Realm Pre Nerf:
4gp10 + 2gpMinion = 24g + 3 minions per Minute = 30g/min for same gold as live servers (30 creeps in 10mins)

Test Realm Post Nerf:
2gp10 + 2gpMinion = 12g + 9 minions per Minute = 30g/min for same gold as live servers (90 creeps in 10mins)


Sure theoretically it works, but if you ever get knocked out of lane or (assuming you are jungle) that you are ganking instead of CSing, it becomes worse. It should probably be bumped up to 3gp/10 to encourage players to build it.