This elo system is a failure

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DizzyJ22

Member

11-23-2012

@ Selcopa
Im not here to argue on my skill, im here to debate the elo system in the solo/duo ranked system. Its great that you know a lot it seems and its kind of you to want to give me advice and check replays of mine, thats cool. But I just do not have time to waste and lots of idiots have wasted my time in ranked. Ive won plenty 4 on 5 games....But That aint gonna happen all the time and normally doesn't in ranked >_> ( mostly because my team mates just dont have hope, i always have hope where i see it. Hearing GG we lost and watching people just play loosely instead of more strong...yeah...).

So lets take 1/4 of my losses and turn them into wins. It should be more, cause ive had more afks and leavers than 1/4 of my losses but lets say we would have still lost a few even if there were no afks from the start.. Add a couple hundred elo for those games that should have been won and bam im in silver. Makes sense to me. Getting a leaver/afk/troll every other game just isnt fair in my opinion. Im sure I would have less to complain about if I could only get out of this elo and get to play with players that at least: A) have a good attitude, B) Are there the entire game and C) Didnt say they were going to troll from the start. So im not going to spend a week of my life straight, over 100 games, just to make up for these losses. Just not going to deal with more of these brutes.

@Fat Kid
Yeah I was was not aware for a while that you play people in normal matchmaking that are around your elo. You can assume those 1800 games were all with bronze...But considering I don't play with random players that often anymore in solo que, I actually do end up facing higher elo players because of the team mates I choose to play with. I know people who feed a lot and are not good at the game, and i play with them sometimes for fun, but most the time i exclude them from my games and i play with people either my level or better. Since it is an average Elo of your team when you invite mates to play with, Ive been playing with a lot of silvers aswell. I actually stopped playing solo normal games for a very long time now because of the funny team mates i've got, which is probably because i was matched with bronze level players.

I kind of feel I should have just stopped when I got 1223~ elo, instead of having 6 bad games in a row and dropping me 150 elo. 2/6 which had afks and 1 that i can remember had a player who was definately screwing around, roaming, not supporting the adc against 2 bot, etc etc. Doubt ill get there again, cause i really lucked out with team mates in the first place, had a good 6 games before that without leavers/afks/trolls...oh well. Getting out of Elo hell is 50% skill and 50% luck (The luck being paired up with serious players).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

chemo2

Junior Member

11-23-2012

They need to do it based on score, similar to dominion. Assists should give you a few points, kills even more, and killing sprees/multiple kills should be double that. Winning should give you extra elo, but it shouldn't be 100% based on winning and losing.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

acidlol

Member

11-23-2012

Hey I will give some advice here... Play Master Yi.. can win 1 v 5 at 900-1100 elo. I definetly was at 900 elo for a little while last season and yes some crappy teams then i just played master yi nonstop went on a crazy winning spree got up to 1300 and from then I kept myself at 1300-1400ish. If you're good this will work..


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DizzyJ22

Member

11-23-2012

@ Chemo2
Agreed, it just makes more sense that in a team game in which you had no choice over your team mates, you shouldnt be judged based on their performance. That works vice versa too, Someone who carries someone out of a game, the one carrying should go up in elo, the guy who went 2/13/1 probably should not move up but still does. I mentioned earlier I had a ranked game where i was 14/1 and our top lane garen was 8/1. Even tho we were surviving, making plays, getting kills, the enemy team had more kills than us and our bottom lane and jungler were just out of position way too many times, refused to listen to pings, and just made horrible plays. I dont think me and that garen deserved the elo loss that game. Thankfully the enemy team noticed that and we both got 4 honorable opponents since we didnt make too much a fuss about it.

@acidlol
Sounds like a good idea, I know master yi can roll over lots of these players. His alpha strike early game is hilarious to use, especially when they keep getting caught in it. After a few kills you just snowball.

Im not beating down on all games I have, but its quite a few where if just 1 team mate screws up badly, the game is pretty much lost (whether they afk, leave, feed or troll). Just unfair that I and many others remain in the same elo range because of this repeating incident. Would be nice if these trolls dropped more elo points than me so I dont have to be matched with them again.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Selcopa

Senior Member

11-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzyJ22 View Post
@ Selcopa
Im not here to argue on my skill, im here to debate the elo system in the solo/duo ranked system. Its great that you know a lot it seems and its kind of you to want to give me advice and check replays of mine, thats cool. But I just do not have time to waste and lots of idiots have wasted my time in ranked. Ive won plenty 4 on 5 games....But That aint gonna happen all the time and normally doesn't in ranked >_> ( mostly because my team mates just dont have hope, i always have hope where i see it. Hearing GG we lost and watching people just play loosely instead of more strong...yeah...).

So lets take 1/4 of my losses and turn them into wins. It should be more, cause ive had more afks and leavers than 1/4 of my losses but lets say we would have still lost a few even if there were no afks from the start.. Add a couple hundred elo for those games that should have been won and bam im in silver. Makes sense to me. Getting a leaver/afk/troll every other game just isnt fair in my opinion. Im sure I would have less to complain about if I could only get out of this elo and get to play with players that at least: A) have a good attitude, B) Are there the entire game and C) Didnt say they were going to troll from the start. So im not going to spend a week of my life straight, over 100 games, just to make up for these losses. Just not going to deal with more of these brutes.
Except you get as many dcs on your team as the enemy team gets(actually if you don't dc. The enemy will get more) don't try to argue that you get more dcs than your opponent. Its just an unintelligent position to hold, in the short run it can be a little unbalanced. But o er time it balances out just fine, dcs are not the reason the system is broken because both sides receive dcs. So there is no reason to switch your "1/4" losses into wins.

If solo queue is a chore then I recommend not playing it anymore. You shouldn't be investing time to get to an elo where you will have fun. I assure you that you probably won't reach that elo, and if you did you would be very disappointed and raise the elo of when you'll start having fun.

Every game counts. Even at lower elo. Each game has a unique set of challenges. 4v5s are unfortunate but even in 5v5s you have to deal with someone needing to be baby sat, creating a 4v5. At all levels have this, it won't go away even if you changed the system.

Quote:
I kind of feel I should have just stopped when I got 1223~ elo, instead of having 6 bad games in a row and dropping me 150 elo. 2/6 which had afks and 1 that i can remember had a player who was definately screwing around, roaming, not supporting the adc against 2 bot, etc etc. Doubt ill get there again, cause i really lucked out with team mates in the first place, had a good 6 games before that without leavers/afks/trolls...oh well. Getting out of Elo hell is 50% skill and 50% luck (The luck being paired up with serious players).
Why don't you try dropping 400 more elo and playing some games, youll see that the 50/50 number you made ultimate will gravitate towards the skill side. As it is for me, as you improve it will be less and less about luck because you will need to rely on your teammates less.

Also I've dropped 150 elo many many times. It happens. Ironically when it happens to me I have a very different response, instead of blaming my teammates. I get worried. "Oh man I can't keep up with this guy's, I don't even know what I could have done better. The game is passing me and I was just lucky when I was going up" I then look over games. Ask higher elo players for help. Get a little better. And try to win more games, this worked for me all the way from 1100 to 1977 and I attribute my climb to 100% skill and zero luck. There was no accident that got me to where I am. And there isn't an accident that caused you to be playing 1800 games and be stuck where you are


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DizzyJ22

Member

11-24-2012

There were 2 games where my opponents d/c from the start, i've had maybe 5 now. (fair right, not time consuming, right)

My point is to fix the elo system in solo/duo Que, not play an infinite amount of games to go up. If you get someone who needs to be baby sat in every elo, maybe they should drop some points, but the team suffers as a whole. So I will start playing full team 5s ranked, it just makes more sense for a win/loss system there and is actually fair.

Could you stop bringing up me as a player, this topic is straying from my point. I've played 1800+ games, and ive enjoyed most of them, whats the problem? Why would you tell me to drop more elo, thats just absurd, lets get stuck with 3 team mates rather than 5 in the 600 elo range, woot? That whole evening out in the long run thing is also absurd, I shouldnt have to play an extra X amount of games because my team and my opponents team has a dc/leaver/rage quitter/troll. I dont like when my team is being stupid and I dont like when the enemy team is being stupid either, theres no competition or fun in that. Im stuck in an elo full of all of this xD

*This is a note for readers/posters:
Dont Troll this thread with "oh youll get there if you deserve it, or YOUR NOT WORTHY OF THAT ELO" Cause this is a huge problem for a number of people, not to mention you cant judge someone you've never seen/met/spoken too, even for a short amount of time. That would be ignorant.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Selcopa

Senior Member

11-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DizzyJ22 View Post
There were 2 games where my opponents d/c from the start, i've had maybe 5 now. (fair right, not time consuming, right)
Its annoying, inconvenient. But happens equally to both sides so is a moot point

Quote:
My point is to fix the elo system in solo/duo Que, not play an infinite amount of games to go up. If you get someone who needs to be baby sat in every elo, maybe they should drop some points, but the team suffers as a whole. So I will start playing full team 5s ranked, it just makes more sense for a win/loss system there and is actually fair.
Infinite games is unnecessary. The point is to look at your elo in blocks of 100 games. Even though it doesn't even take that long

Quote:
Could you stop bringing up me as a player, this topic is straying from my point. I've played 1800+ games, and ive enjoyed most of them, whats the problem? Why would you tell me to drop more elo, thats just absurd, lets get stuck with 3 team mates rather than 5 in the 600 elo range, woot? That whole evening out in the long run thing is also absurd, I shouldnt have to play an extra X amount of games because my team and my opponents team has a dc/leaver/rage quitter/troll. I dont like when my team is being stupid and I dont like when the enemy team is being stupid either, theres no competition or fun in that. Im stuck in an elo full of all of this xD
You as a player is relevant to the topic because it contributes to your flawed understanding and your misrepresentations of the elo system. You claim to be in elo hell because of teammates holding you down, and the system being broken. However if you drop a significant amount of elo, even with the same(and in fact less skilled) teammates, you would have much less difficulty winning games due to your opponents being less skilled and you maintaining the same skill level

Quote:
*This is a note for readers/posters:
Dont Troll this thread with "oh youll get there if you deserve it, or YOUR NOT WORTHY OF THAT ELO" Cause this is a huge problem for a number of people, not to mention you cant judge someone you've never seen/met/spoken too, even for a short amount of time. That would be ignorant.
You hold a position that has been disproven multiple times, and you claim to be an exception to this proven concept that there is no elo hell(certainly not over 1800 games. Or even 100) And your only evidence is your good word, no replays. White I believe you are being honest and believe the system is at fault. I also think you are oblivious to the mistakes you make. And that is why you are stuck at your elo and once you fix those mistakes you will plateau at a higher elo


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

11-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by chemo2 View Post
They need to do it based on score, similar to dominion. Assists should give you a few points, kills even more, and killing sprees/multiple kills should be double that. Winning should give you extra elo, but it shouldn't be 100% based on winning and losing.
Oh, I'm sorry, I must have been mistaken, I thought the point of a competitive game was to win (and ofc have fun as well but...), not to farm republic credits.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

11-24-2012

Mathematically, if you are a good player, your team only has 4/5 chances of getting fail players, whereas the other team has 5/5. Granted, this may not win you every game, due to luck of the draw, but, mathematically speaking, the more games you play, the closer reality will become to the ideal, and the more deluded you look when you say you aren't where you belong.

This is why "Elo Hell" is a delusion made up by bad but prideful players who cannot accept their own repeated badness and/or learn from their failures.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DizzyJ22

Member

11-25-2012

Its been a couple days, i still have 8/10 wins in my history, pretty good against these bronzes...And the losses were due to afks lol...so yeah

@Radiant, Dont forget to include the % of more trolls in the lower elos. Also dont forget its not always 50/50 chance for trolls and d/c. Someone will always have more dc either on their team or their opponents.

Im very sure some people just want to complain and place blame, but its not everyone..