@Zileas - Counter Play

First Riot Post
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harry13aals

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I actually think Blitz does well and the bans are mostly out of a general 'I don't want to deal with the risk and energy required' more than raw frustration. He does well on counterplay, and a lot of that has to come to how you alter your play as an individual and as a team knowing they have a blitz, and the nuance around baiting opportunities, intentionally taking a hook to initiate, etc that happens. I don't see a lot of blitzcrank stopping people from doing strategies, and more them adding to them...

I also think that teamplay, which wasn't discussed in this episode, is relevant. I like that teams can to a degree build strategies around the presence of a blitz, and try to cluster and wait for a hook with a blitz -- both very interesting situations in which people alter their play to then get benefit, and in a way that is nuanced, interesting, etc.
So...How about putting underdrive back in his kit so there's actually some counterplay to Blitz bum-rushing your carry before he even tries to hook? Also, is there supposed to be counterplay to Blitz' mana barrier? It seems to never be down, so why even have the cooldown on the spell at all?


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PodunkTheMighty

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Senior Member

11-22-2012

Why not give Vlad some sort of bloodwalk? (Vlad can be annoying, but I do love playing him.) Vlad pools to avoid trouble or to move in on an enemy and slow them, so why not make it a single-target ability that has him leap out of an enemy or allied unit within x range, damaging and slowing or increasing their movement speed, respectively?

This would keep the core functionality of the ability the same while making it less frustrating to play against and giving incentive to farm with his E. I think the fact that the blood pool is an over-time ability is what chiefly annoys people.


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Syntax Er0r

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Senior Member

11-22-2012

Ever purposefully allowed Blitzcrank to pull you into the team while playing fed Annie?

Did you know that until you actually are beside Blitzcrank you are not stunned?


What seems like getting caught out; can sometimes turn into a quick double or triple kill before you are instantly melted.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

11-22-2012
15 of 27 Riot Posts

At first I thought this thread was about how to counterplay Zileas himself.

Then I came in here and I was like.. oh.. math and stuff.


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AlexanderNW

Member

11-22-2012

zileas how do u counterplay volibear?


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Doonhijoe V

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PodunkTheMighty View Post
Why not give Vlad some sort of bloodwalk? (Vlad can be annoying, but I do love playing him.) Vlad pools to avoid trouble or to move in on an enemy and slow them, so why not make it a single-target ability that has him leap out of an enemy or allied unit within x range, damaging and slowing or increasing their movement speed, respectively?

This would keep the core functionality of the ability the same while making it less frustrating to play against and giving incentive to farm with his E. I think the fact that the blood pool is an over-time ability is what chiefly annoys people.

D&D ALERT D&D ALERT

Idk why I did that, but I felt it was needed.


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Dreampod

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
At first I thought this thread was about how to counterplay Zileas himself.

Then I came in here and I was like.. oh.. math and stuff.
How to counterplay Zileas:

Make logical arguments that leave no room for him to sarcastically mock them. Without sarcasm he can't 1v1 anyone and will be forced to acknowledge your point or flee the discussion.


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Opreich

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox P McCloud View Post
Zileas, how can you say they're "not that far off"? =/ Aside from champions that are going to get reworked (Karma, Heimer, etc), or ones that probably need it (Nasus)---Fiora, Yi, and Tryn have the worst win rate in high-Elo solo queue (also amongst the lowest popularity)---on top of this, they're never picked in competitive play.

Also, how is adding far more kiting in S3 going to solve the issue? The Frozen Gauntling thing effectively means a perma-slow, BotRK cann easily be picked up by ranged AD to ensure you don't get close---true shard ensures even a support or mage can even keep you from getting close. CC and AoE (which has increased in S3) will still crush you in no time flat, and you're forced into itemizing for survivability, which inevitably means your DPS will be less than that of ranged---which goes back to my original point---if you end up doing less damage and are melee---why bother playing a melee ADC over a ranged?
AD SION HOOOO!!!

Come on Fox, you need to include him in your Melee Carry Conquest too.


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Buff Soraka

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Community: Blitzcrank is not fun to play with or against.
Riot: But he's not op.
Community: Ok....?


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Akuni

Senior Member

11-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
I actually think Blitz does well and the bans are mostly out of a general 'I don't want to deal with the risk and energy required' more than raw frustration. He does well on counterplay, and a lot of that has to come to how you alter your play as an individual and as a team knowing they have a blitz, and the nuance around baiting opportunities, intentionally taking a hook to initiate, etc that happens. I don't see a lot of blitzcrank stopping people from doing strategies, and more them adding to them...

I also think that teamplay, which wasn't discussed in this episode, is relevant. I like that teams can to a degree build strategies around the presence of a blitz, and try to cluster and wait for a hook with a blitz -- both very interesting situations in which people alter their play to then get benefit, and in a way that is nuanced, interesting, etc.
No. It might look like fun but it definitly isn't. Blitz forces you to have Leona, Alistar, or Taric (already risky) because every other support can be instagibbed by 1 hook. Limiting the enemy teampicks is bad already imo. Having that ridiculous hitbox doesn't help (or at least the feeling of such a big hitbox). A maxrange grab is still fairy easy to hit as the client-server lag paired with missilespeed usually doesn't accept those 3 steps that would have safed you. I can't tell you how many times I have seen blitz fists going besides players still grabbing (the hitbox seems to be bigger on one side of the fist btw). This forces you to play overly defensiv in lane - no fun. And all that still adds on top of his innate tankiness from basevalues and passive! I am honest here, I want to see blitz banned in all my games. That or I want him picked on my side. It's not a 'more possibilities and strategies' thing but the fact that blitz is way too frustrating.

Just to give you a small 'strategy' is it fun stealing buffs over walls? Is it fun grabbing the enemies at lvl1 if they don't play hyper-defensive (means giving up jungle)? It is on blitz end. Never on the enemy one.

Go on blitz players downvote me. I'm sticking to my opinion as I was with malph (guess who got fotm op then?) and others (same thing).