S3 feedback: Because I love LOL tanking

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ErrorMaster

Junior Member

11-16-2012

Hello, I enjoy tanking and league if legends and I would like to give feedback regarding the new S3 items on PTR.

1) So much mana on tanking items:
Too many tanking items with mana on them, even mana hungry tanks such as amumu and sejuani do not require mana items late game, even one of these items is an overkill (in terms of mana).
Mana stats on tanking items are a waste, if a tank feels they need more mana they can just buy RoA or a support mana regen item.
Not to mention is 100% usless for manaless tanks such as shen
Examples: Frozen heart, ohmwrecker and spirit of the anceint golem,

2) The increase in price and the increases in investment with no rewards

The prices of AP items such as rabadon, Rylai's and lichbane are going down (understandable). The new AD items are very powerful.

On the other hand, tanks are only getting price increase in items and a harder jungle for AOE tanks . The increase in price and the increases in investment with no rewards
Tanks will already be forced to spend gold on jungle items that are very underwhelming in team fights, no more heart of gold to give tanks more gold and good stats and at the same time the prices of tanking items are going up.
Therefore, I believe S3 jungling tanks will lack stats compared with S2 jungle tanks even if the reward is of the jungle is increased.
PS: from my experience HoG and mercinary (24g on assist and kills) kept tanks very close in terms of gold to carries even while jungling. Im concerned both of mercinary and HoG are gone and we
forced to invest in machette which is useless for tanking.

3) No Movement speed tanking items since Force of nature was removed

4) Specific items

Warmog: Not cost efficient compared to giant belt, useless passive. Why change this item? It is a core item for health based characters such as sejuani.
1000g for 400 life giant belt means 1000 life is worth 2500g, while warmog cost is 2650g.

Frozen heart: too expensive (500g increase in price for the same stats). Mana is useless, in a patch were AD will be stronger and countering items will be needed.
The armor on frozen heart was also reduced and the radius of the aura.

Thornmail: Too expensive for an item that can be easily countered by blade of the Ruined king. In fact you should just sell this item if the enemy gets a ruined king, or maybe surrender.
Randuin's omen: Not cost efficient compared to warmog and chain vest.

ohmwrecker: 350 life and 55 armor is not worth 2850 gold! tho the acive is nice but it feels that this item will not be used unless you are forcing the enemy team to turtle. Again the mana is useless.

Spirit visage: Is very underwhelming, even mundo thinks it is useless.

New items in general:

These changes are gonna hurt pure tanks more than bruisers
Tanks are already gonna get hit hard by all % of health as damage items and % of armor shreds. since tanks tend to have higher defensive stats than bruisers
At the same time no useful tanking items were introduced to help tanks, especially a movement speed item for singed or to follow those carries Kitting us through minions with their new phantom dancer.

Please replace the mana on glacial shroud with something more useful. This will allow frozen heart and frozen fist to be more useful even for non tanks.
Currently the only champion that may miss the mana of frozen heart is Ryze, while all tanks will benefit (and anyone really) from a better defensive stat on glacial shroud.


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Vuther

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErrorMaster View Post
Randuin's omen: Not cost efficient compared to warmog and chain vest.

ohmwrecker: 350 life and 55 armor is not worth 2850 gold! tho the acive is nice but it feels that this item will not be used unless you are forcing the enemy team to turtle.
Only if you ignore it has one of the best actives in the game.

Not seeing how this will force the enemy to turtle (as the active will make them severely disappointed), but an enemy that dare not leave the safety of their area is an enemy that awaits a slow loss.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErrorMaster View Post
Mana stats on tanking items are a waste, if a tank feels they need more mana they can just buy RoA or a support mana regen item.
Not to mention is 100% usless for manaless tanks such as shen
You are incorrect. Frozen Heart is definitely useful on non-mana users in general. The majority of the price of the item is going toward very high armor, hery high CDR and the aura debuff.

I buy Frozen Heart on Shyvana pretty constantly. It works great! The 20% CDR helps her spam her skill even more!


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ErrorMaster

Junior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IonDragonX View Post
You are incorrect. Frozen Heart is definitely useful on non-mana users in general. The majority of the price of the item is going toward very high armor, hery high CDR and the aura debuff.

I buy Frozen Heart on Shyvana pretty constantly. It works great! The 20% CDR helps her spam her skill even more!
I did buy it on shen too, I was refering to the mana on it not the the rest of it. Im just saying that because it is usualy bought by tanks, then it should have lets say life instead of mana on it.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Something that I just noticed for tanking purposes:

Runic Bulwark (3200)
+400 Health +20 Armor +30 Magic Resist
UNIQUE Aura - Legion: Nearby allies gain 10 Armor, 30 Magic Resist and 10 Health Regen per 5.

So, if the Tank gets one and the Support has one (or an Aegis); then the Tank gets the aura twice. This means that this item could be:
+400 Health +40 Armor +75 Magic Resist and 20 Health per 5

That combo looks to be what we lost in the FoN as far as survivability against magic damage and regen.


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SovietBlade

Senior Member

11-17-2012

My name is singed and I am lols


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SovietBlade

Senior Member

11-17-2012

and wait.. no movespeed items introduced?
did you actually read the patchnotes?


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exelsis xax

Senior Member

11-17-2012

You obviously didn't think your post through very hard.

1. Most champions use mana. If they don't, mogs/omen/SV/mallet/thornmail/sunfire/GA. If those aren't enough for you, you're doing it wrong. The only thing manaless tanks lack is CDR on their TANK ITEMS. Boots of lucidity DO exist, you know. Also have a few coming up in S3.

2. AP and dedicated melee DPS/AD caster items are getting buffed because brusiers and ranged AD are OP. Don't complain that's unfair, because even if the current changes go through, AD will still be the most powerful champion type.

Yes, jungling tanks are getting nerfed by the jungle changes. The jungle was too easy, and was having too much of an impact in freezing early game plays in the lanes. With the S3 changes, junglers stay useful the whole game, but suffer the penalty of much less safe jungling clears.

HoG was a bad item. Like a lot of the S3 changes coming up, its removal is to incentivize actual action before the AD carry is farmed up. HoG does absolutely nothing but make the buyer more passive.

Yes, machete is useless for tanking. So is an amplifying tome. The hell is your point? It's not a tank item, it's a freaking JUNGLE item.

3. Movement speed in items has been slashed across the board. Every single item recieved huge reductions in any MS it gave. FoN was removed because it was an akward combo of stats that prevented any further items path in its vicinity, so they had to cannibalize it. Tanks also don't need MS if they are doing their job correctly. If you are chasing, you're doing it wrong, if you're running, you already ****ed up. Be a better tank, or get a trinity.

4. giant's belt is currently 2.6 gold per HP. Warmog's is 2.4 gold per HP, COMPLETELY IGNORING THE FACT THAT YOU WOULD ALSO GET 8 HP/S TOTALLY FREE WITH THAT WARMOGS. So tell me, how in the HELL is warmog's not cost efficient? Are you incapable of performing basic calculations, or just can't be bothered to use actual evidence?

Frozen heart was goddamn awesome, and still is. All aura items are insanely price efficient, as in like 7000 free gold in stats for the old starks. 35%? reduction in enemy attack speed is freaking AWESOME. Add in craptons of armor, you've got yourself one of the three best anti-physical items in the game, and possibly the best depending on the circumstances. Also, yes, it has mana. Deal with it. Items are going to have mana, and have that gold wasted on manaless champions. Stop whining about it.

Thornmail is the best item in the game for stopping a DPS from killing you. Period. Blade of the ruined king doesn't counter it. LW/BC/youmuu AND a bloodthirster AND a Maw or other MR item counter it. You just spent 2K gold to force the opponent to spend at least 5K gold to be able to kill you again. That's a goddamn good trade.

Omen, are you freaking serious? Are you level 3? Omen is THE BEST all-around tank item in this game. It gives EVERYTHING a tank needs except MR. It has health, regen, CDR, active MS/AS debuff that scales off your tankyness, as well as a passive MS/AS debuff if anyone should DARE attack you. Not cost efficient? It's cost efficient for armor and health alone, and you get FREE regen, FREE debuffs, and a FREE teamfight-winning active. Have you done ANY math for ANY of these items?

Spirit visage, yes, because health, MR, CDR, and buffing your passive and ult by 20% is useless. Are you completely insane? With visage AND the new warmogs, you get 2.5 times your passive regen just from SV+mogs+mundo passive! HOW IS THAT USELESS? Not to mention the fact that that combo would also give you craploads of health, good CDR, good normal HP/5, and plenty of MR.

If you are a tank getting owned by %HP, you deserve to get owned. If you are a tank getting kited by a ranged DPS, you deserve to die. If you are buying items with mana on champions that don't use mana, you deserve to have all those wasted stats sitting in your inventory.

Rant off.


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ErrorMaster

Junior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by exelsis xax View Post
You obviously didn't think your post through very hard.

1. Most champions use mana. If they don't, mogs/omen/SV/mallet/thornmail/sunfire/GA. If those aren't enough for you, you're doing it wrong. The only thing manaless tanks lack is CDR on their TANK ITEMS. Boots of lucidity DO exist, you know. Also have a few coming up in S3.

2. AP and dedicated melee DPS/AD caster items are getting buffed because brusiers and ranged AD are OP. Don't complain that's unfair, because even if the current changes go through, AD will still be the most powerful champion type.

Yes, jungling tanks are getting nerfed by the jungle changes. The jungle was too easy, and was having too much of an impact in freezing early game plays in the lanes. With the S3 changes, junglers stay useful the whole game, but suffer the penalty of much less safe jungling clears.

HoG was a bad item. Like a lot of the S3 changes coming up, its removal is to incentivize actual action before the AD carry is farmed up. HoG does absolutely nothing but make the buyer more passive.

Yes, machete is useless for tanking. So is an amplifying tome. The hell is your point? It's not a tank item, it's a freaking JUNGLE item.

3. Movement speed in items has been slashed across the board. Every single item recieved huge reductions in any MS it gave. FoN was removed because it was an akward combo of stats that prevented any further items path in its vicinity, so they had to cannibalize it. Tanks also don't need MS if they are doing their job correctly. If you are chasing, you're doing it wrong, if you're running, you already ****ed up. Be a better tank, or get a trinity.

4. giant's belt is currently 2.6 gold per HP. Warmog's is 2.4 gold per HP, COMPLETELY IGNORING THE FACT THAT YOU WOULD ALSO GET 8 HP/S TOTALLY FREE WITH THAT WARMOGS. So tell me, how in the HELL is warmog's not cost efficient? Are you incapable of performing basic calculations, or just can't be bothered to use actual evidence?

Frozen heart was goddamn awesome, and still is. All aura items are insanely price efficient, as in like 7000 free gold in stats for the old starks. 35%? reduction in enemy attack speed is freaking AWESOME. Add in craptons of armor, you've got yourself one of the three best anti-physical items in the game, and possibly the best depending on the circumstances. Also, yes, it has mana. Deal with it. Items are going to have mana, and have that gold wasted on manaless champions. Stop whining about it.

Thornmail is the best item in the game for stopping a DPS from killing you. Period. Blade of the ruined king doesn't counter it. LW/BC/youmuu AND a bloodthirster AND a Maw or other MR item counter it. You just spent 2K gold to force the opponent to spend at least 5K gold to be able to kill you again. That's a goddamn good trade.

Omen, are you freaking serious? Are you level 3? Omen is THE BEST all-around tank item in this game. It gives EVERYTHING a tank needs except MR. It has health, regen, CDR, active MS/AS debuff that scales off your tankyness, as well as a passive MS/AS debuff if anyone should DARE attack you. Not cost efficient? It's cost efficient for armor and health alone, and you get FREE regen, FREE debuffs, and a FREE teamfight-winning active. Have you done ANY math for ANY of these items?

Spirit visage, yes, because health, MR, CDR, and buffing your passive and ult by 20% is useless. Are you completely insane? With visage AND the new warmogs, you get 2.5 times your passive regen just from SV+mogs+mundo passive! HOW IS THAT USELESS? Not to mention the fact that that combo would also give you craploads of health, good CDR, good normal HP/5, and plenty of MR.

If you are a tank getting owned by %HP, you deserve to get owned. If you are a tank getting kited by a ranged DPS, you deserve to die. If you are buying items with mana on champions that don't use mana, you deserve to have all those wasted stats sitting in your inventory.

Rant off.
1. I play amumu and sejuani. If they use mana it doesnt mean they need a mana item after lvl8. their base mana should be enough. having mana on tanking items is like having magic pentration on an AD item.

2. That is why i said the AP buff is understandable. They shouldve have been buffed earlier imo. Did you realy read what I said?

3. Singed??

* Good point on spending 5k to counter it, we will have it to see it on live to know exactly how it goes.

**Nobody uses spirit visage. I havent seen this item in months, and if you read any good mundo guide they will tell you not to buy it and get warmog instead since mundo regen is based on his max life. It is even more effective on other items. The stats are amazing they are just too low, it need an upgrade (for extra cost ofcourse).

*** This is exactly my point, when playing shen or shyvana against a heavy physical team. you need FH to help your entire team. Yet, the mana makes me feel like I wasted so much gold. Infact it is too much mana for ANY tank


Rant off? Dude I am just voicing my opinion here, no need to rage and have a heart attack over it. just relax.


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TTTintillo

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Senior Member

11-18-2012

Blitz begs to differ.