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Executioners Calling

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WhackedRak

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Let's discuss the new Executioner's Calling

OLD:
Executioner's Calling
Item Cost: 1350 Recipe Cost: 500 +18% Life Steal +15% Critical Strike Chance
UNIQUE Passive: Your basic attacks apply a mark to the target that deals 4 bonus magic damage each second for 8 seconds.
UNIQUE Active: Inflicts target enemy champion with Grievous Wound,causing 50% reduced healing and regeneration for 8 seconds (20 second cooldown).
Built from Vampiric Scepter and Brawlers Gloves

NEW:
Executioner's Calling
Item Cost: 1850 Recipe Cost: 700 +25 Attack Damage +15% Critical Strike Chance
UNIQUE Passive: Your basic attacks inflict Grievous Wounds on enemy champions for 1.5 seconds.
(Grievous wounds reduces healing and regeneration by 50%)
Builds from Avarice Blade and Long Sword

Here's my opinion:

Executioners calling was first designed to be a direct counter to healers. I believe its first iteration was even cheaper than either of these and was therefore an approachable buy during the laning phase, especially top lane to counter sustainers. It did however turn out to be too strong and got nerfed by cost and changing the on hit-effect to be an active instead.

Now I know there are few fans of this item, but I happen to be one of them. Even though EC is a mid-tier item, it is not necessarily limited to being a mid-game item only. It's great not just for the active but for the stats it gives and how they actually scale into late game when you have lots of AD. It gave ad carries a cheaper alternative to BT and let them buckle down into AD and crit stats. Melee carry's such as Fiora and Tryndamere love this item. It synergizes with IE + Youmuus and rounds out all the stats you'd want coming into mid-late game to assassinate dudes. Consider the alternative of having a Wriggles late game. As an adc, I would rather have 18% lifesteal and 15% crit than 12% lifesteal and 23 AD late game. Bruisers would probably still want Wriggles, but I'm talking about ad carries and especially melee carries.

Now the cost of this item has gone up significantly and the lifesteal component has been removed, making it a terrible alternative to Wriggles and a more out-of reach countermeasure during the laning phase. By the time you get it to counter that lvl9 Lee Sin with Wriggles, the laning phase will be about done.

Now I understand all lifesteal items have been nerfed because lifesteal is too strong. EC was actually the only item that remained unscathed the LAST time Riot did a pass on lifesteal items(when vamp scepter went from 15% to 10% and all its parents were nerfed accordingly EXCEPT executioners) 18% is huge. The only item on live at the moment that gives more is BT with 31 + stacks. EC has been a SIGNIFICANT alternative to other lifesteal items at the cost of having less epic premiums late game and I think I'll miss that part the most.

Another problem I see in the design of the new item is how it builds out of Avarice Blade. Normally I would want to rush Executioners fairly quickly to counter that Chogath/ Lee top lane. But why would I want to do that if I lose all the gold generation I'm getting from Avarice Blade. This is forcing EC into a late game item even though it's mid-tier and gives flat damage instead of a stat that scales multiplicative late game.

I just don't see the new executioners being that useful to many champions in its current state. This is the EC I would ever so love to have Season 3.

Executioner's Calling
Item Cost: 1850 Recipe Cost: 300 +10 Attack Damage +15% Critical Strike Chance + 15% Life Steal
/*UNIQUE Passive - Greed: Gain an additional 2 Gold every kill.*/ // Line commented out as it's not really necessary
UNIQUE Active: Inflicts target enemy champion with Grievous Wound,causing 50% reduced healing and regeneration for 8 seconds (20 second cooldown).
Builds from Avarice Blade and Vampiric Scepter


Edit: Further discussion from GD thread

To people saying Blade of the Ruined King is a good item for AD carries

Quote:
I don't like Blade of the Ruined King. It feels like Riot's attempt to control and restrain lifesteal to a linear value instead of the its true value as a high-scaling multiplicative modifier late game when you have lots of damage. (Like what they did to Dorans Blade: it now heals by a flat 5 health every auto). Sure that's easier to balance, but with the way it stands, all the lifesteal items( with the exception of BT) are now predominantly most useful for bruisers to do more bruising. If the passive of BotRK turns out to work, Riot may replace all multiplicative scaling lifesteal items with a similar linear scaling mechanic, because it may prove to be "healthier" for the game.

Items like old EC and now only BT remain as a means for carries to validate building pure damage with no defenses. Being a true adc powerhouse by spending every dime you gain on dps feels really great and needs to stay viable. Multiplicative lifesteal makes this possible in the end game. By buying pure damage and lifesteal with no defenses, you are making the gambit that you will be able to kite and outplay the bruisers that jump you late game. This really only applies to ranged adc's, melee adc's are still a brokenly UP factor in the game.

BotRK will be great for bruisers who can slow and stick to carries easier with its active. But the % current health heal on hit is better suited scaling with attack speed on someone like Irelia. True ADC's will be better off buying BT for the insane multiplicative lifesteal it gives with lots of damage items. The change of EC just removed the only other option adc's had for building pure damage late game, and further crippled melee ADC's. Even though they were trying to diversify and validate different build paths in Season 3, this change to EC has solidified BT as a necessary buy for all ADCs every game, no matter the situation.
Specifically for ranged AD carries:
Quote:

Old EC was bought rarely over a BT by most players, but some understood the benefit of upgrading that scepter to EC in certain situations. The best time to buy it would usually be after IE to face off against the other adc who's been creaming you with a fully stacked BT. For the extra 900 gold you gain the benefit of having as much if not more lifesteal than a BT, as it's now late game and gaining and maintaining stacks will be harder. You'll also be critting more than the other adc who hasn't finished his IE yet since he rushed BT.

BT was not the only option in Season 2, but with the EC change it will be. They're saying lifesteal is becoming an investment choice rather than something you always have. But I'm saying that now there is no choice and BT will be bought on every adc, period.

Take a look at this Caitlyn auto-attacking graph analysis of three builds

http://lol.askmrrobot.com/tools/buil...getDummy,d=Dps (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/redirect.php?do=verify&redirect_url=http%3A%2F%2Flol.askmrrobot.com%2Ftools%2Fbuilder%2Fcaitlyn-vs-targetdummy%2F95fa618c-9d3b-413d-ad00-82eb9e6b3d54%23r%3DDamage%2Ct%3DTargetDummy%2Cd%3DDps)

It's easy to see that EC is actually viable for adc's.


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WhackedRak

Senior Member

11-16-2012

I'm also not sure how changing the Active into a 1.5 sec on-hit passive will effect the viability of grievous wounds in most situations. I really liked just sapping the heaviest healer for the 8 seconds and diving past him to focus the squishier targets. Perhaps since there are so many more important item actives coming out they thought they were doing a service by reworking this one.


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Xarlee

Junior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
WhackedRak:
Let's discuss the new Executioner's Calling

OLD:
Executioner's Calling
Item Cost: 1350 Recipe Cost: 500 +18% Life Steal +15% Critical Strike Chance
UNIQUE Passive: Your basic attacks apply a mark to the target that deals 4 bonus magic damage each second for 8 seconds.
UNIQUE Active: Inflicts target enemy champion with Grievous Wound,causing 50% reduced healing and regeneration for 8 seconds (20 second cooldown).
Built from Vampiric Scepter and Brawlers Gloves

NEW:
Executioner's Calling
Item Cost: 1850 Recipe Cost: 700 +25 Attack Damage +15% Critical Strike Chance
UNIQUE Passive: Your basic attacks inflict Grievous Wounds on enemy champions for 1.5 seconds.
(Grievous wounds reduces healing and regeneration by 50%)
Builds from Avarice Blade and Long Sword

Here's my opinion:

Executioners calling was first designed to be a direct counter to healers. I believe its first iteration was even cheaper than either of these and was therefore an approachable buy during the laning phase, especially top lane to counter sustainers. It did however turn out to be too strong and got nerfed by cost and changing the on hit-effect to be an active instead.

Now I know there are few fans of this item, but I happen to be one of them. Even though EC is a mid-tier item, it is not necessarily limited to being a mid-game item only. It's great not just for the active but for the stats it gives and how they actually scale into late game when you have lots of AD. It gave ad carries a cheaper alternative to BT and let them buckle down into AD and crit stats. Melee carry's such as Fiora and Tryndamere love this item. It synergizes with IE + Youmuus and rounds out all the stats you'd want coming into mid-late game to assassinate dudes. Consider the alternative of having a Wriggles late game. As an adc, I would rather have 18% lifesteal and 15% crit than 12% lifesteal and 23 AD late game. Bruisers would probably still want Wriggles, but I'm talking about ad carries and especially melee carries.

Now the cost of this item has gone up significantly and the lifesteal component has been removed, making it a terrible alternative to Wriggles and a more out-of reach countermeasure during the laning phase. By the time you get it to counter that lvl9 Lee Sin with Wriggles, the laning phase will be about done.

Now I understand all lifesteal items have been nerfed because lifesteal is too strong. EC was actually the only item that remained unscathed the LAST time Riot did a pass on lifesteal items(when vamp scepter went from 15% to 10% and all its parents were nerfed accordingly EXCEPT executioners) 18% is huge. The only item on live at the moment that gives more is BT with 31 + stacks. EC has been a SIGNIFICANT alternative to other lifesteal items at the cost of having less epic premiums late game and I think I'll miss that part the most.

Another problem I see in the design of the new item is how it builds out of Avarice Blade. Normally I would want to rush Executioners fairly quickly to counter that Chogath/ Lee top lane. But why would I want to do that if I lose all the gold generation I'm getting from Avarice Blade. This is forcing EC into a late game item even though it's mid-tier and gives flat damage instead of a stat that scales multiplicative late game.

I just don't see the new executioners being that useful to many champions in its current state. This is the EC I would ever so love to have Season 3.

Executioner's Calling
Item Cost: 1850 Recipe Cost: 300 +10 Attack Damage +15% Critical Strike Chance + 15% Life Steal
UNIQUE Passive - Greed: Gain an additional 2 Gold every kill.
UNIQUE Active: Inflicts target enemy champion with Grievous Wound,causing 50% reduced healing and regeneration for 8 seconds (20 second cooldown).
Builds from Avarice Blade and Vampiric Scepter



I completely agree i find it to be a terrible item now its not beneficial in anyway imo to what it used to be


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Spikywarkitten

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Considering executioner was my favorite lifesteal item, I am a bit sad. BUT i suppose the huge lifesteal is why it was changed in the first place ;'(


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Jaigar

Senior Member

11-16-2012

They were going to move the Wicked Hatchet from TT into SR, but they changed EC so its basicly the Wicked Hatchet. Don't underestimate that wounding effect, its incredibly nice if you got a high sustain team you are going up against, like a Jax, singed, mundo, swain, etc.


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Omnipherious

Senior Member

11-16-2012

I think it simplified the whole process of applying grevious wounds. One less click to worry about. Mages and auto-attackers that get Morellonomicon or Executioners can hard counter sustain a little easier now instead of waiting for the cooldown to be up.

Granted it was a short cooldown but the champions these items are needed against usually require the grevious wounds to be available more often in order to properly counter them.


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Tenmar

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Jaigar:
They were going to move the Wicked Hatchet from TT into SR, but they changed EC so its basicly the Wicked Hatchet. Don't underestimate that wounding effect, its incredibly nice if you got a high sustain team you are going up against, like a Jax, singed, mundo, swain, etc.


Except that's not really the issue. The item was intended for champs that wanted life steal and crit and while that was a small number of champs they still needed the itemization. Also the champs that also used the old EC aren't going to really be using basic attacks with the new EC making the passive effect pointless.


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ysmeine ida

Senior Member

11-16-2012

The new EC looks like a bad item for similar reasons that Riot removed other items. It's a mid-tier item that doesn't build into anything and has a random assortment of stats: a low amount of AD, a low amount of crit%, and a healing debuff. Avarice blade already has an upgrade that includes AD in YG, so it has a competitor in regard for that stat. The only other stats that aren't paired with crit that someone who is buying crit would want are lifesteal, spell vamp, health, and magic resistance. Apparently Riot did not want lifesteal on the item so spell vamp would be silly as well. Magic resistance doesn't make much sense, but flat health is something that could work for every champ. I think some of these would be a better option for it to be a viable item to get a desired passive and not some item with random stats.


Item Cost: 1600 Recipe Cost: 325 +200 Health +15% Critical Strike Chance
UNIQUE Passive - Avarice: Gain an additional 4 gold every 10 seconds.
UNIQUE Passive: Your basic attacks inflict Grievous Wounds on enemy champions for 1.5 seconds.
(Grievous wounds reduces healing and regeneration by 50%)
Builds from Avarice Blade and Ruby Crystal


Item Cost: 1750 Recipe Cost: 150 +10 Attack Damage +15% Critical Strike Chance
UNIQUE Passive: Your basic attacks inflict Grievous Wounds on enemy champions for 1.5 seconds.
(Grievous wounds reduces healing and regeneration by 50%)
UNIQUE Passive: Your basic attacks against enemies afflicted with grievous wounds gain 18% lifesteal
Builds from Avarice Blade and Vampiric Sceptre


Item Cost: 2350 Recipe Cost: 235 +18 Attack Damage +15% Critical Strike Chance
UNIQUE Passive: Your basic attacks inflict Grievous Wounds on enemy champions for 1.5 seconds.
(Grievous wounds reduces healing and regeneration by 50%)
Unique: Your basic attacks have a 25% chance to slow your target's Movement Speed by 30% for 2 seconds (20% for ranged attacks).
Builds from Avarice Blade and Phage


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WhackedRak

Senior Member

11-16-2012

^ That 2nd one seems a little too strong. So it would proc a ton of lifesteal on every consecutive hit after the first, but would wear off if you stopped attacking for 1.5 secs.. I would be cool with that. Honestly I just want an item that gives critical strike and lifesteal that will fill the void of old EC. That way, all my favorite super critting niche champions would be happy.


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WhackedRak

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Bump for Saturday LoLer's discussion