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Spirit Stone needs a buff.

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Mdaha

Member

11-16-2012

So Hunter's Machete is a good item for jungling, I love it. Makes Attack Speed marks great. But if I'm playing a more tanky jungler like Nautilus, my options are Madred's or Spirit Stone. Spirit Stone builds into better items for Naut so that is the clear winner. The problem is that in order for Spirit stone to be better then Hunter's Machete I need to be doing 200+ damage every auto attack, which is very difficult early game. I shouldn't be paying gold to lose power, this is why Spirit Stone damage to monsters needs to be buffed. If you don't agree with me, I would like feed back on why you choose this as the design choice.

My suggestion: Bump it up to 20% for Spirit Stone, and leave its upgrade also at 20% you are paying for the stats on the Tier 3 items, not a better jungling time.


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Fucshia

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Mdaha:
So Hunter's Machete is a good item for jungling, I love it. Makes Attack Speed marks great. But if I'm playing a more tanky jungler like Nautilus, my options are Madred's or Spirit Stone. Spirit Stone builds into better items for Naut so that is the clear winner. The problem is that in order for Spirit stone to be better then Hunter's Machete I need to be doing 200+ damage every auto attack, which is very difficult early game. I shouldn't be paying gold to lose power, this is why Spirit Stone damage to monsters needs to be buffed. If you don't agree with me, I would like feed back on why you choose this as the design choice.


Agreed, somewhat. It's possible, though, that Machete is designed to be overpowered specifically to help early, and that the upgrades are meant to be less powerful simply because at that point you have leveled at least a little.

This would mean that, potentially, you don't want to upgrade the Machete at all for a long period of time. Not sure on that, though, would require some actual numbers/testing.


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Amzin

Recruiter

11-16-2012

From the wording, it looks like Spirit Stone is supposed to buff ALL damage from your champ vs. monsters, is that not the case? Haven't had a chance to test that one personally. For Naut it should be boosting your W/E damage in that case, though.

If that's not the case, the tooltip needs to be changed to specify that it's for autoattacks only.


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Statikk

Live Balance Designer

11-16-2012

You aren't taking into account the extra 5% damage amp to your abilities (Passive, W, E) as well.

I know there's a math-y crossover point at which you need to pass in order for Spirit Stone to be higher damage in some cases due to the loss of the Rend passive. This isn't ideal, but we acknowledged this and accepted that players can opt to leave the Hunter's Machete in their inventory in order to go for other items until they feel comfortable that upgrading Spirit Stone would be a for-sure damage increase.


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Mdaha

Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Amzin:
From the wording, it looks like Spirit Stone is supposed to buff ALL damage from your champ vs. monsters, is that not the case? Haven't had a chance to test that one personally. For Naut it should be boosting your W/E damage in that case, though.

If that's not the case, the tooltip needs to be changed to specify that it's for autoattacks only.


It is all damage. The problem is even with his E and W doing 15% more damage as well you kill the small creeps faster, but you are still at the camp longer because the big one takes so long to kill and the +5% damage from upgrading is not worth losing the 10 True damage. Lets take Warwick for another example, His Q and Passive do slightly more damage, and the Spirit Stone upgrades are a lot better for him then Wriggles imo, but you are forced into Madred's still for clear speed because the +5% damage is not worth it.


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Mdaha

Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Statikk:
You aren't taking into account the extra 5% damage amp to your abilities (Passive, W, E) as well.

I know there's a math-y crossover point at which you need to pass in order for Spirit Stone to be higher damage in some cases due to the loss of the Rend passive. This isn't ideal, but we acknowledged this and accepted that players can opt to leave the Hunter's Machete in their inventory in order to go for other items until they feel comfortable that upgrading Spirit Stone would be a for-sure damage increase.


The problem is that I want the health and mana regen early so I can pass blue to my mid, I can go with the old Philo Build still, but then when I do build Spirit Stone it is over kill for those stats. I am also taking the W, E, and Passive in to consideration, The W and E destroy the small creeps either way, but that's not the problem, the problem is taking down the camp leaders. You are creating another noob trap by making an item that you build that makes you lose power in the jungle and they only way they can figure out if its better is by remembering, at level 9 Spirit Stone is better for Naut, at level 12 Spirit Stone is better for Warwick, it should be a clear cut winner for single target damage when you upgrade.


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Amzin

Recruiter

11-16-2012

As Stattik just said... don't upgrade it to Spirit Stone if it's not actually an upgrade yet :P Spend your gold on another item, or a piece of what you want the spirit stone to turn into. If this winds up being the case for every champ, then yea, it's probably too weak, but boosting all damage by 15% for some champs is probably fine.

Edit: Spirit Stone doesn't seem like it SHOULD be the best for single target damage, Madred's is the clear winner there. Spirit Stone is definitely more AE damage based.


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Vivi R66

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Stop saying Sight Stone isntead of Spirit Stone >.<


And yes i agree, anything that loses power is nonsense...


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Mdaha

Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Amzin:
As Stattik just said... don't upgrade it to Spirit Stone if it's not actually an upgrade yet :P Spend your gold on another item, or a piece of what you want the spirit stone to turn into. If this winds up being the case for every champ, then yea, it's probably too weak, but boosting all damage by 15% for some champs is probably fine.


It is not a boost of 15%, it is a boost of 5%, Hunter's Machete already has 10% built in to it.


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Mdaha

Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Vivi R66:
Stop saying Sight Stone isntead of Spirit Stone >.<


And yes i agree, anything that loses power is nonsense...


Whoops, sorry Didn't realize my mistake >.<

Edit: Fixed my mistakes for you.