@IronStylus: I am very disappointed in you and the art team.

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Gixia

Senior Member

11-17-2012

In regards to Nami, I have mixed feelings, but ultimately I lean towards positive. The cleavage shot is pretty unnecessary, but I'd say it's at least progress. Compare Nami to Elise, or even go further back and do Syndra, or Zyra, or Dark Valkyrie Diana. Yes, Nami's got an ample cleavage shot going, but compared to all the previous, that's all she has exposed, whereas the rest are all showing much more exposed skin. Bare thighs, backs, midriffs, waists, and plenty more. In comparison, the cleavage shot on Nami alone makes her seem tame in comparison. Hell, just compare her to Cassiopeia, another champion who's all tail from the waist down and lady on top, and again, Nami is much much more clothed in comparison. On top of that, the fluffy peeled back scales on her chest area resemble the collar of a fancy dress, which, combined with the jewellery, crown, and ornate neckguard, manage to maintain a regal appearance in spite of her bust.

So while I don't think Nami is perfect, I'd say she's definitely a step in the right direction away from blatant sexiness. If anything, I'd say it's at least close to an appropriate level of sexy, balancing bare skin with a mostly covered up appearance. So I give Nami positive marks. Frankly, Nami is what I think Elise should have looked like, in terms of how to portray a combination of sexuality and regality that Elise was sorely, sorely lacking.

That said, what I find more problematic about Nami isn't so much her appearance, as it is her appearance combined with the fact that she sounds like a child. While I'm aware there's some precedent there (even from more modest corporations, such as Disney's Little Mermaid), I still think that she should sound a bit more adult or... I don't know, classy? She sounds like a punky teenager, while her looks and support role give her a more refined appearance. But maybe that's just me projecting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkthor3 View Post
Read Elise's lore, she is kind of a seductress.
No, she's not, she's a temptress. She tempts people in with promises of power and eternal youth/beauty. She doesn't seduce them. Elise's extremely blatant sexuality/hooker appearance is grossly out of place on her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laquert View Post
In this example the issue was that Samus, our female hero, is in canon a powerful and independent figure. However, in Other M she doesn't suffer from the Bag of Spilling: she starts the game with all the cool toys we've seen her use in all other games. However, she chooses not to use them until her ex-boyfriend informs her she can. In this example, the female hero has no independence: she starts with all the tools she needs to beat the game, but the player is incapable of using them until a male authority informs her she can, and throughout the game yields to this authority's opinion.
This is off topic, but I have to make a comment on this specifically because I'm one of those few people who actually liked Other M and feel compelled to defend it. While it was imperfect with many flaws, I never felt it was nearly as sexist as people made it out to be. People constantly spout how Samus doesn't use her tools because her ex-boyfriend, but I never saw it that way at all. I saw the issue as two-fold. One, Samus is only independent in that she's normally undergoing dangerous missions alone. That said, as a bounty hunter, she's still usually undergoing those missions on behalf of somebody else. Usually the military, and ultimately, this means that there is an authority that she has to answer to. She does eventually tell the military it can go **** itself when she decides their orders are bull****, but not until Fusion, the last game in the series, which takes place after Other M. Other M is one of the rare games where Samus isn't undergoing her mission alone, she's responding to a distress beacon in which the military is there already, and thus she's expected to either follow their orders or get the hell out of their way. Since the events of Fusion haven't transpired yet, she has no reason to doubt the military's orders, whom she's worked for many times in the past. Furthermore, the military's reasoning for not allowing her to use some of her tools is somewhat justified. They're doing a rescue/investigation mission, as opposed to Samus's usual seek and destroy objectives, and many of Samus's power-ups would hinder those objectives. Just to use one ability as an example, when Samus finally uses a power bomb at the end of the game, it completely annihilates the entire room, not just the enemies but the walls, the floor, everything is in shambles. This would endanger the people they're trying to save, Samus's lesser powered military colleagues, as well as any clues as to what happened. Furthermore, the military commander in the game, Adam, was less of an ex-boyfriend and more of an estranged father figure, making it less of a case of man-commanding-independant-woman, and more of a case of child-attempting-to-please-parent. Even then, the moment she actually has reason to doubt him, she starts just activating her power-ups on her own whenever she feels like it.

Of course, there were a few occasions where this doesn't fit very well, like why she couldn't use her fire-resistant armour in the fire area until midway during the boss fight, but I've always viewed that as more being a case of being a gameplay-story disconnect. They wanted Samus to reobtain her powers as a gameplay mechanic, they wanted to use the military authorization as their story mechanic to justify why she doesn't have them right away, and the fact that that creates a bit of a paradox in regards to her powers that don't cause life-threatening harm to others was disregarded. Which just goes to show how important it is to make sure your story and gameplay go hand-in-hand instead of trying to brute force everything. Like I said, it wasn't a perfect game, definitely had its share of flaws, especially in the story department. I just think the sexism one was overblown.


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parentheses

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
50 pages.. no way I can read every one of these posts. To sum up though, despite what you may think, I am not the single point of failure in a scenario where a busty lady makes it through our pipeline. I'm here to be one of many voices that chimes in when appropriate. Can I flip a table or two? Absolutely, if I deem it unnecessary. I really wasn't too terribly concerned about Nami because, well, I think she's a cool design.

Did I notice the ruffles revealing some fish flesh? Yeah, I saw it months ago. Did I think it was particularly a good idea to poo-poo the design when it was on its way, when it was gathering momentum, and when it was being passionately worked on by the artist? Hell no. This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard. I didn't find the cleavage to be a monumental red flag.

When I saw the concept I was like.. look at this stuff, isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think this concept's complete? Wouldn't you think she's the girl, the girl that has, everything? Look at those frills, how they unfold. How many wonders can one mermaid hold? Looking around here you think, sure, she's got everything. She's got flippers and scepters a plenty. She's got dashes and splashes galore. You want complementary curves? She's got twenty. But who cares, no big deal, she wants more.

She wants to be where the players are, she wants to see, wants to see them fighting, thinking inside of those, what do you call them? Oh, brains! Flipping to mid you don't get to far. Supports are required for healing, casting, strolling along on that.. what's that word again? Lane! Up where they toss, up where they stun, up where they lane all day in the sun, wandering free, wished she could be, part of that role.

What would she pay, if she could play, out of those waters? What sort of gift, would let her lift, up to the game? Betcha in the rift, they get the drift, that they appreciate their healers. Crowd controllers, supporting rollers, ready to sustain, and ready to help with Carry's job. Lock up the gankers and get some assists. What's a Baron, and how does it, what's the word? Buff! When's it enough? Wouldn't they love, love to play some support up above?

Out of the sea.

Wished she could be.

Part of that roll.



..tune in next time when I explain our champion creation process akin to how the mice put together Cinderella's dress.
OP here. That was beautiful and clever but it didn't really explain much as far as female champion design. You're one of my favorite Red's, IronStylus and I know you've been outspoken about more varied female body types which is why I addressed this thread to you. I don't think you are the single point of failure.

If this is your answer about Nami, I want to know what you think about Elise and most specifically her login screen with bouncing breasts. Why were excessive breasts necessary? Why couldn't we have seen a truly monstrous female spider sorta like a female Kog or Cho instead?

I guess I just expect more from Riot as a gaming company as a whole so I want to know if you guys have some sort of concrete plan to add more female body types into the game or is it just sort of some vague idea that "if it happens, happens." The latter seems like it wouldn't be too effective because female beauty ideals are very entrenched.


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Sorry Not Shark

Member

11-17-2012

Just make a female version of Gragas to shut up the whiny and/or insecure feminazis.
Riot pls


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SachieI

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
After all of the comments you have made about giving us more female body types, you release two female champions one after another with huge cleavage on display.

Why did Elise need huge breasts that literally HEAVE up and down in her login screen? She is a spider - the perfect opportunity for you guys to make a truly monstrous female champion.

I thought to myself, "Ok, maybe the next female champ will be better."

I just saw Nami's in game model and art. Again, we have prominent breasts on display for absolutely zero reason. You could have gone a number of other directions with this and made it more unique and much much cooler without making another BOOBFEST champ.

I remember after Elise came out people were disappointed about her character design and you replied to a forum thread saying that you would address our concerns.

They weren't address and now we have Nami. I probably won't even buy her although I main support. I just can't support Riot saying one thing and then doing another as far as female champ design anymore.

EDIT: Here are some screenshots for those that are wondering what I'm talking about because Nami is "omg lol a fish so how could she have boobs."

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xgAsff_kG2U/UKXPfvpOEAI/AAAAAAAAKAY/sEKFM3QoyQY/s1600/nami.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-z8dPIbhN9Hc/UKXSFC0ySUI/AAAAAAAAKAw/I3H0ZR_0VvY/s1600/mermmy.png

Also, check out the video of Nami in action next to Kat - Kat seems like she'd be a much more sexualized character but Nami's breasts are much more prominently on display and more obvious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-CfHApTyBM

EDIT: Made this post, went to bed, and it exploded. +83 downvotes and 27 pages later I don't know quite where to start. Not sure why I'm getting downvotes unless people are just assuming that I'm "anti-boobs" - which is not true. Fact is, Riot has made two female champs with huge breasts that did not need breasts as part of their character design. Nami and Elise are not seductresses - they don't need huge racks. I have no problem with fantasy and I understand why characters like MF or Ahri need to be boobilicious but huge breasts make no sense for a majority of Riot's female characters.
A mermaid..... without breasts..... RIIIIIIIIGHT. That would go over well. Nami has the most beautiful preview art we have seen in a while and you come on here complaining that her breasts (that are not even close to large by LoL standards) are a problem. Think before you type, its hard to take things back on teh internets.


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Avalon Bright

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard.
I am now finding it inordinately hilarious that people are now not only *****ing about female champions daring to show any skin, they're now getting indignantly up in arms even when those champions are designed by a woman in the first place. Jesus christ, people.

To paraphrase something I said on a blog thread a week or so ago--As a chick myself, I am disgustingly sick and tired of this generation's Jezebel-fostered post-feminist mentality that women are no longer allowed to look "hot."

If you want to go back to your neck-high Victorian gowns and your ankle-glimpses being something to get all hot and bothered, go find yourselves a time machine and knock yourselves out. But quit dragging that **** into modern society.

Yes, I'm a chick. Yes, we actually do like to look hot. Stop pitching a whiny fit over it.


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Invictrix

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
OP here. That was beautiful and clever but it didn't really explain much as far as female champion design. You're one of my favorite Red's, IronStylus and I know you've been outspoken about more varied female body types which is why I addressed this thread to you. I don't think you are the single point of failure.

If this is your answer about Nami, I want to know what you think about Elise and most specifically her login screen with bouncing breasts. Why were excessive breasts necessary? Why couldn't we have seen a truly monstrous female spider sorta like a female Kog or Cho instead?

I guess I just expect more from Riot as a gaming company as a whole so I want to know if you guys have some sort of concrete plan to add more female body types into the game or is it just sort of some vague idea that "if it happens, happens." The latter seems like it wouldn't be too effective because female beauty ideals are very entrenched.
Iron Stylus- 1
Your whiny butt- 0


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Invictrix

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
50 pages.. no way I can read every one of these posts. To sum up though, despite what you may think, I am not the single point of failure in a scenario where a busty lady makes it through our pipeline. I'm here to be one of many voices that chimes in when appropriate. Can I flip a table or two? Absolutely, if I deem it unnecessary. I really wasn't too terribly concerned about Nami because, well, I think she's a cool design.

Did I notice the ruffles revealing some fish flesh? Yeah, I saw it months ago. Did I think it was particularly a good idea to poo-poo the design when it was on its way, when it was gathering momentum, and when it was being passionately worked on by the artist? Hell no. This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard. I didn't find the cleavage to be a monumental red flag.

When I saw the concept I was like.. look at this stuff, isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think this concept's complete? Wouldn't you think she's the girl, the girl that has, everything? Look at those frills, how they unfold. How many wonders can one mermaid hold? Looking around here you think, sure, she's got everything. She's got flippers and scepters a plenty. She's got dashes and splashes galore. You want complementary curves? She's got twenty. But who cares, no big deal, she wants more.

She wants to be where the players are, she wants to see, wants to see them fighting, thinking inside of those, what do you call them? Oh, brains! Flipping to mid you don't get to far. Supports are required for healing, casting, strolling along on that.. what's that word again? Lane! Up where they toss, up where they stun, up where they lane all day in the sun, wandering free, wished she could be, part of that role.

What would she pay, if she could play, out of those waters? What sort of gift, would let her lift, up to the game? Betcha in the rift, they get the drift, that they appreciate their healers. Crowd controllers, supporting rollers, ready to sustain, and ready to help with Carry's job. Lock up the gankers and get some assists. What's a Baron, and how does it, what's the word? Buff! When's it enough? Wouldn't they love, love to play some support up above?

Out of the sea.

Wished she could be.

Part of that roll.



..tune in next time when I explain our champion creation process akin to how the mice put together Cinderella's dress.
Iron Stylus is officially my favorite red. Iron Solari ftw.


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Sorry Not Shark

Member

11-17-2012

If you want girls covered up, go live in Afghanistan or Iran for a couple months, see how great it works out for the women there.


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Vekter

Junior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
50 pages.. no way I can read every one of these posts. To sum up though, despite what you may think, I am not the single point of failure in a scenario where a busty lady makes it through our pipeline. I'm here to be one of many voices that chimes in when appropriate. Can I flip a table or two? Absolutely, if I deem it unnecessary. I really wasn't too terribly concerned about Nami because, well, I think she's a cool design.

Did I notice the ruffles revealing some fish flesh? Yeah, I saw it months ago. Did I think it was particularly a good idea to poo-poo the design when it was on its way, when it was gathering momentum, and when it was being passionately worked on by the artist? Hell no. This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard. I didn't find the cleavage to be a monumental red flag.

When I saw the concept I was like.. look at this stuff, isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think this concept's complete? Wouldn't you think she's the girl, the girl that has, everything? Look at those frills, how they unfold. How many wonders can one mermaid hold? Looking around here you think, sure, she's got everything. She's got flippers and scepters a plenty. She's got dashes and splashes galore. You want complementary curves? She's got twenty. But who cares, no big deal, she wants more.

She wants to be where the players are, she wants to see, wants to see them fighting, thinking inside of those, what do you call them? Oh, brains! Flipping to mid you don't get to far. Supports are required for healing, casting, strolling along on that.. what's that word again? Lane! Up where they toss, up where they stun, up where they lane all day in the sun, wandering free, wished she could be, part of that role.

What would she pay, if she could play, out of those waters? What sort of gift, would let her lift, up to the game? Betcha in the rift, they get the drift, that they appreciate their healers. Crowd controllers, supporting rollers, ready to sustain, and ready to help with Carry's job. Lock up the gankers and get some assists. What's a Baron, and how does it, what's the word? Buff! When's it enough? Wouldn't they love, love to play some support up above?

Out of the sea.

Wished she could be.

Part of that roll.



..tune in next time when I explain our champion creation process akin to how the mice put together Cinderella's dress.
I love you.


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Jiz Khalifa

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

these threads make me want to quit the game, I dont want to be a part of a community with people who complain about irrelevant bull****

please get a life, stop laying LoL and stop making these retarded threads... you should get forum banned for lifetime