@IronStylus: I am very disappointed in you and the art team.

First Riot Post
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DJMerDur

Junior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
50 pages.. no way I can read every one of these posts. To sum up though, despite what you may think, I am not the single point of failure in a scenario where a busty lady makes it through our pipeline. I'm here to be one of many voices that chimes in when appropriate. Can I flip a table or two? Absolutely, if I deem it unnecessary. I really wasn't too terribly concerned about Nami because, well, I think she's a cool design.

Did I notice the ruffles revealing some fish flesh? Yeah, I saw it months ago. Did I think it was particularly a good idea to poo-poo the design when it was on its way, when it was gathering momentum, and when it was being passionately worked on by the artist? Hell no. This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard. I didn't find the cleavage to be a monumental red flag.

When I saw the concept I was like.. look at this stuff, isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think this concept's complete? Wouldn't you think she's the girl, the girl that has, everything? Look at those frills, how they unfold. How many wonders can one mermaid hold? Looking around here you think, sure, she's got everything. She's got flippers and scepters a plenty. She's got dashes and splashes galore. You want complementary curves? She's got twenty. But who cares, no big deal, she wants more.

She wants to be where the players are, she wants to see, wants to see them fighting, thinking inside of those, what do you call them? Oh, brains! Flipping to mid you don't get to far. Supports are required for healing, casting, strolling along on that.. what's that word again? Lane! Up where they toss, up where they stun, up where they lane all day in the sun, wandering free, wished she could be, part of that role.

What would she pay, if she could play, out of those waters? What sort of gift, would let her lift, up to the game? Betcha in the rift, they get the drift, that they appreciate their healers. Crowd controllers, supporting rollers, ready to sustain, and ready to help with Carry's job. Lock up the gankers and get some assists. What's a Baron, and how does it, what's the word? Buff! When's it enough? Wouldn't they love, love to play some support up above?

Out of the sea.

Wished she could be.

Part of that roll.



..tune in next time when I explain our champion creation process akin to how the mice put together Cinderella's dress.
I'm literally going to make my first and last post (lurker) to say that this made my day and that you deserve a medal. Do Under the Sea next ya?


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The Manic Man

Member

11-17-2012

I enjoy femininity. I don't see the problem frankly. If it makes you feel any better, go play Tristana.


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Nomsumer

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenvas View Post
hey, why the downvote? men like having big equipment and gay men and enough women like to look at that. its a sign of empowerment, being able to beat someone dead with your shlong.
and men have beards, thats just nature, deal with it.
Think about what you see on TV. It is far more acceptable for the even the FCC or whomever it is to show cleavage than it is for guys packages. Shows that did show them would likely get a different rating simply due to what the public is currently accustomed to here in NA and in other parts of the world. Should it be that way? I don't care. The point is that if Riot was the one to break ground in this area they would possibly receive a backlash that would affect them financially. The game is for all ages, and while it isn't "fair" one is simply more accepted in the public eye than the other and it is short sighted to expect Riot to take the potential risks just because a Very Small Minority complain about it.

If you want to see these changes in Riots artwork take your passion for the topic and go change public policy and expectations so that Riot can even consider taking them. In the meantime they'll make an occaisionally less busty female champion, and maybe you'll get some male champs that are more up your alley but expecting Riot to take the financial risks is silly.


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Torcida1911

Senior Member

11-17-2012

This guy wants less ****? Ban this phaggot, riot pls


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Bekkal

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysnomer View Post

EDIT:
:\ wow, people are congratulating you for a bit of wordplay, ignoring what your post actually means. I give up on this community, there's no hope at all.

I sincerely hope this means you will be leaving said community.


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Imalia

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Everyone who is making gay bashing assumptions? Go to hell.

That being said, I'm repeating what I said before. I think the original concept art is fine, except for the deeply plunging V line. A V line that doesn't go down to her crotch, I'm cool with. The model itself? It does go down to the crotch and the emphasis on her bust is excessive, moreso than the concept art went with. The details that made the original art interesting are downplayed. The frills and the large jewels are minimized in lieu of the cleavage. That I'm not okay with. I liked the concept art as a whole even if I disagreed with an element of it. The model I kind of wish they did better. I'd personally like a more modest mermaid, but if the concept had been faithfully reproduced as a 3d model, I don't think I would complain.


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Imperfectable

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolfor View Post
Having said that, I think that Nami's... life preservers don't even fit the rest of her body very well. She's got an otherwise sleek and aerodynamic design, and then two huge buoys thrusting out from her chest. I think her overall aesthetic would look much tighter with a smaller, more atheletic set of sea sponges.
Thank you for actually bringing something to the conversation other than impotent rage.

I suppose we need to specify here: you mean the in-game character model, not the concept art, correct? The default camera angle League is played from does unfortunately put more focus on Nami's chest, and combined with a slightly more "generous" proportioning of the 3D model could be an issue. I feel like, in combination, the result of the in-gave viewing angle and loss of resolution moving to the in-game model (which makes it harder to tell how much of her chest is 'frill' and how much is 'flesh') may be making her bust look quite a bit larger than was intended, and in turn represent a less-than-ideal realization of the artist's intention.

I definitely feel like the concept art has a very sleek and hydrodynamic aesthetic, and if that's being lost in translation to the in-game model, that's a serious issue for the 3D modelers and animators.


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Swerto

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Oh no, cleavage is showing.

WHAT A TRAVESTY TO ART.


Butthurt feminazis and freshmen feminism class takers abound.


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Diablosangelis

Junior Member

11-17-2012

I want to preface this with the fact that I have not read all seventy pages--I got through about ten and the red posts before skipping to the end. I don't normally post in the forums, but I've seen several threads about this subject and I wanted to express my opinions on the subject.

First, to those who argue so passionately with the op--I absolutely respect your opinion, and agree with you to an extent that women are over sexualized in this game, as well as in most media and society as a whole.

However, there are a few points I'd like to make:
1. I tend to see comments meant to infuriate the op and people who agree with them, and then a few posts later, a quote and a reply calling them an idiot or the like. By doing this you give weight to their opinion--don't waste the time--just ignore their clearly inflammatory comments. It'd be like in a debate, if one person called the other person a moron, and the debate broke down into childish name calling--everybody loses. (Not saying some debates aren't that bad anyway , but I digress).

2. On the subject of post--picking a mermaid to argue about sexualized female characters was probably not the best choice--the entire mythos is based on seductive women who draw sailors to their deaths. I have not heard the champions voice, so I can't comment on her having a young voice.

3. On the more general subject of the topic of the post, the sexualization of female characters, I think we need to realize that in video games, in all media really, you deal in extremes and stereotypes. You don't deal in middle of the road because it's kind of boring. Not saying it's fair or right, just the way things are. I have several points on the subject that I'll enumerate below.

3.1 On the topic of non-sexualized female characters, the ones that come immediately to mind are Tristana, Poppy, Annie and Anivia. Three non-human and a child. Ok, so the rest (baring my poor memory of all the champions) are either human or part human, and sexualized to a degree. Not a great ratio admittedly. However, Anivia is a champion I'd like to give props to Riot for. Female, non-human, non-sexualized. Derivative--phoenix--but different (ice phoenix), and cool/interesting. (pun semi-intended)

3.1.1 On the subject of the rest of the female champs--Riot conformed with the various mythos and stereotypes associated with female, part or full human characters. Cassiopeia is a perfect example of this: Her roots are likely in Medusa/Echidna mythos, despite her name, and, as of 500 BC at least, those creatures are depicted as beautiful in a feminine, yet terrifying way. If Riot went back beyond 500 BC, maybe we'd have a hideous Medusa--but given that the bulk of references occur after 500 BC, can we blame them that much?

3.2 This may be the comment that gets me flamed the most, but on the subject of stereotypes--is it so bad that the primary one for female human/human derived characters--is hot? I does objectify women--but so do men. Bring on the flames--or let me explain. Find me a happy couple, regardless of their appearance by media standards, and nine times out of ten or better, you'll find a man who thinks his woman is gorgeous--doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. So when you design female characters, for a male dominated group especially, the player needs to be able to find something attractive about them--fair or not, it's marketing. This is not to say they all need to be big-boobed bimbos--that's boring--but they need to have something attractive about them--and is that so terrible? That men want to find something attractive in a character that's portrayed as human/semi-human and female?

3.3 But what about male characters that aren't sexualized? Lets think about male stereotypes: Slobs, drunks, rednecks, chauvinistic pigs--obviously I'm focusing on the negatives here, but my point is this--hot is not a common stereotype for men--male appeal is largely based on utility, not aesthetics. Common examples I see people bring up about the variety in male champions are: Gragas--fat drunk, Warwick--wolfman, Kog'maw--no idea, etc.

3.3.1 What's your point? Good question--by and large, characters in video games are, to an extent, derivative. They are stereotypes, myth, monster. Lets talk about Kog'maw--he's the least derivative of the three in my opinion: why is he male? Why is his gender specified? There's no need for it--don't think anyone wanted to get that close, and it certainly doesn't matter for reproductive reasons--he eats everything, that's his character. He's a perfect example of something pervasive in nearly all legends, stories, etc: if you can't find something appealing about it--make it male, it's easier to stomach. I would have preferred he be left sexless--but you can't win them all.

My point with all this is not that is fair, or right--but that it's easier for the majority of the populace--especially of a video game--to stomach gross and disgusting male characters--possibly because we all probably know a gross and disgusting male. ()

What we need to realize with posts like this is that when you ask Riot to make a female monster that does not conform to some existing myth, legend, story or archetype--you're asking for true originality. Some people would argue that doesn't exist. I disagree, but I definitely agree it's more difficult.

I simply feel that the better approach is to applaud Riot for Yordles, where females aren't sexualized, and for Anivia--a non-sexualized, appealing female character. Show them that this is what the community wants instead of making a thread complaining that a mermaid character is sexualized (you think?) or that a seductive spider queen has big **** (easier to lure distracted men to their deaths maybe?). Sure, most characters do, and will continue to follow existing archetypes, but by telling Riot we appreciate the effort it takes to go against existing archetypes and taking a risk with a female champ, or any champ--we're telling them that's something we'll spend money on--and they're running a business.

Oh, and a final thought--if you're portraying a female human/semi-human--they're going to have breasts: tissue located on the torso that contains Mammary Glands. Unless they're a breast cancer survivor or similar--and I'm not sure that's a character type you're going to convince Riot to make. Of course, this does not mean they need to be obvious--but when you're trying to make a character obviously female... it's something easy to emphasize. So instead of complaining about breasts, which I'm pretty sure most people like (), understand that its an easy trap to fall into, and push for more non-human/human hybrid (maybe reptilian?) female characters.

Basically--lets let Riot know we'd buy a character they went hog wild on (assuming it was fun to play) regardless of what it/he/she looks like. Hell, chick or dude, I'll play Kog--he's awesome. And isn't that the point? Fun characters to play. I don't think I've ever bought a champ because they were hot (a skin or two maybe... forgive me for being male ), I buy them because they're fun to play.

Sorry for the wall of text.

TL,DR: Female characters being stereotyped as attractive is pervasive throughout recorded history--lets applaud examples where Riot did something different instead of complaining about when they don't.


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spawnsbulge

Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
50 pages.. no way I can read every one of these posts. To sum up though, despite what you may think, I am not the single point of failure in a scenario where a busty lady makes it through our pipeline. I'm here to be one of many voices that chimes in when appropriate. Can I flip a table or two? Absolutely, if I deem it unnecessary. I really wasn't too terribly concerned about Nami because, well, I think she's a cool design.

Did I notice the ruffles revealing some fish flesh? Yeah, I saw it months ago. Did I think it was particularly a good idea to poo-poo the design when it was on its way, when it was gathering momentum, and when it was being passionately worked on by the artist? Hell no. This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard. I didn't find the cleavage to be a monumental red flag.

When I saw the concept I was like.. look at this stuff, isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think this concept's complete? Wouldn't you think she's the girl, the girl that has, everything? Look at those frills, how they unfold. How many wonders can one mermaid hold? Looking around here you think, sure, she's got everything. She's got flippers and scepters a plenty. She's got dashes and splashes galore. You want complementary curves? She's got twenty. But who cares, no big deal, she wants more.

She wants to be where the players are, she wants to see, wants to see them fighting, thinking inside of those, what do you call them? Oh, brains! Flipping to mid you don't get to far. Supports are required for healing, casting, strolling along on that.. what's that word again? Lane! Up where they toss, up where they stun, up where they lane all day in the sun, wandering free, wished she could be, part of that role.

What would she pay, if she could play, out of those waters? What sort of gift, would let her lift, up to the game? Betcha in the rift, they get the drift, that they appreciate their healers. Crowd controllers, supporting rollers, ready to sustain, and ready to help with Carry's job. Lock up the gankers and get some assists. What's a Baron, and how does it, what's the word? Buff! When's it enough? Wouldn't they love, love to play some support up above?

Out of the sea.

Wished she could be.

Part of that roll.



..tune in next time when I explain our champion creation process akin to how the mice put together Cinderella's dress.
ok im buying nami now