@IronStylus: I am very disappointed in you and the art team.

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mogonk

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireside Poet View Post
No, what is meant by that qoute (not said by me, by the way) is that -isms create rules for thinking. Even egalitarianism creates rules for what is and is not right or wrong within its own ism.
It doesn't create "rules" for what is right or wrong. It's an IDEA of what is right and wrong. It's a set of values. For virtually every abstract concept you could possibly think of, there is an -ism.

I get that you heard this glib little quote and thought it sounded neat, but it's completely vacuous.


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Fireside Poet

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Oh no, big words.

You must be incredibly cerebral.

You're allowed your own opinion of what -isms are and what they do, but what you say isn't fact. It's opinion.

I live my life without -isms at all, pulling instead from many of them to create my own personal standard of right and wrong. I seem to be alright.


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Imperfectable

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
50 pages.. no way I can read every one of these posts. To sum up though, despite what you may think, I am not the single point of failure in a scenario where a busty lady makes it through our pipeline. I'm here to be one of many voices that chimes in when appropriate. Can I flip a table or two? Absolutely, if I deem it unnecessary. I really wasn't too terribly concerned about Nami because, well, I think she's a cool design.

Did I notice the ruffles revealing some fish flesh? Yeah, I saw it months ago. Did I think it was particularly a good idea to poo-poo the design when it was on its way, when it was gathering momentum, and when it was being passionately worked on by the artist? Hell no. This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard. I didn't find the cleavage to be a monumental red flag.
I think it's almost a shame this point will get lost in fawning over the rest of your post, because people here really do seem too quick to forget that "concept art" on the level of what Morello showed in Nami's sneak peek isn't something people throw together on their lunch break.

There were obviously countless sketches and revisions that went into that before the drafting of the final piece, which itself was clearly no small effort. A real person - an artist - put considerable work into creating the piece, and for me the first rule of creative endeavors is that if someone worked hard creating something, you should work hard critiquing that thing.

The people who are upset over "fishboobs" seem to have taken no time to comment on the quality of the concept art, the animations, or the overall aesthetic. They apparently have no significant opinions on the core concept of the character or how it fits in with the overall design aesthetic established by the other champions in League, or even the environment represented by the map designs. They don't seem to have anything to say about the art style or how well (or poorly) it was preserved in the transition from concept to Live. That makes it very hard to take their criticism seriously as anything beyond a knee-jerk reaction.

Please give my regards to the artist. It's a really wonderful piece with great use of implied texture to give a feeling of not only scales, but that smooth 'fishbelly' look and the gossamer-like construction of the fin. I do wonder, though: was it meant to look more playful, or panicked? There's a sense like she's hurriedly shielding herself against something, which gives a very good "support" sensibility, but she has a very youthful look to her (partially because of the aforementioned ultra-smooth fishbelly look to some of her skin) that gives the overall composition a more playful slant.


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mogonk

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11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireside Poet View Post
Oh no, big words.
lolwut

I didn't even use any big words.

You are deluded if you think your personal sense of right and wrong exists in a vacuum. Where do you think your internal values come from? That they spring fully formed from the freakin ether?

The idea that one should eschew systems of thought is simply ludicrous. By all means continue posing as if that's what you do, if you like. It's a pretty silly pretension, but do what makes you happy.


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BillionStorm

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11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
50 pages.. no way I can read every one of these posts. To sum up though, despite what you may think, I am not the single point of failure in a scenario where a busty lady makes it through our pipeline. I'm here to be one of many voices that chimes in when appropriate. Can I flip a table or two? Absolutely, if I deem it unnecessary. I really wasn't too terribly concerned about Nami because, well, I think she's a cool design.

Did I notice the ruffles revealing some fish flesh? Yeah, I saw it months ago. Did I think it was particularly a good idea to poo-poo the design when it was on its way, when it was gathering momentum, and when it was being passionately worked on by the artist? Hell no. This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard. I didn't find the cleavage to be a monumental red flag.

When I saw the concept I was like.. look at this stuff, isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think this concept's complete? Wouldn't you think she's the girl, the girl that has, everything? Look at those frills, how they unfold. How many wonders can one mermaid hold? Looking around here you think, sure, she's got everything. She's got flippers and scepters a plenty. She's got dashes and splashes galore. You want complementary curves? She's got twenty. But who cares, no big deal, she wants more.

She wants to be where the players are, she wants to see, wants to see them fighting, thinking inside of those, what do you call them? Oh, brains! Flipping to mid you don't get to far. Supports are required for healing, casting, strolling along on that.. what's that word again? Lane! Up where they toss, up where they stun, up where they lane all day in the sun, wandering free, wished she could be, part of that role.

What would she pay, if she could play, out of those waters? What sort of gift, would let her lift, up to the game? Betcha in the rift, they get the drift, that they appreciate their healers. Crowd controllers, supporting rollers, ready to sustain, and ready to help with Carry's job. Lock up the gankers and get some assists. What's a Baron, and how does it, what's the word? Buff! When's it enough? Wouldn't they love, love to play some support up above?

Out of the sea.

Wished she could be.

Part of that roll.



..tune in next time when I explain our champion creation process akin to how the mice put together Cinderella's dress.
TL;DR of this is "I didn't want to hurt the concept artist's feelings, now let me derail the thread."

I wouldn't have complained if it was just an ordinary sexualized mermaid. It would have been boring but that's what mermaids are, aquatic temptresses. The problem is that her skin is literally peeling off of her body to reveal her breasts. I'm beginning to lose a bit of faith in you IronStylus. You've talked a lot of talk about how the over sexualization of female champions is a major concern internally but we continue to see champs with gratuitous amounts of it seemingly tacked on. Constructive criticism is part of the work place, especially with something as subjective as art. Given how this is also supposedly a hot topic internally there's no way bringing this up to the artist would crush anyone's dreams and aspirations.


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Krimson62

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
50 pages.. no way I can read every one of these posts. To sum up though, despite what you may think, I am not the single point of failure in a scenario where a busty lady makes it through our pipeline. I'm here to be one of many voices that chimes in when appropriate. Can I flip a table or two? Absolutely, if I deem it unnecessary. I really wasn't too terribly concerned about Nami because, well, I think she's a cool design.

Did I notice the ruffles revealing some fish flesh? Yeah, I saw it months ago. Did I think it was particularly a good idea to poo-poo the design when it was on its way, when it was gathering momentum, and when it was being passionately worked on by the artist? Hell no. This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard. I didn't find the cleavage to be a monumental red flag.

When I saw the concept I was like.. look at this stuff, isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think this concept's complete? Wouldn't you think she's the girl, the girl that has, everything? Look at those frills, how they unfold. How many wonders can one mermaid hold? Looking around here you think, sure, she's got everything. She's got flippers and scepters a plenty. She's got dashes and splashes galore. You want complementary curves? She's got twenty. But who cares, no big deal, she wants more.

She wants to be where the players are, she wants to see, wants to see them fighting, thinking inside of those, what do you call them? Oh, brains! Flipping to mid you don't get to far. Supports are required for healing, casting, strolling along on that.. what's that word again? Lane! Up where they toss, up where they stun, up where they lane all day in the sun, wandering free, wished she could be, part of that role.

What would she pay, if she could play, out of those waters? What sort of gift, would let her lift, up to the game? Betcha in the rift, they get the drift, that they appreciate their healers. Crowd controllers, supporting rollers, ready to sustain, and ready to help with Carry's job. Lock up the gankers and get some assists. What's a Baron, and how does it, what's the word? Buff! When's it enough? Wouldn't they love, love to play some support up above?

Out of the sea.

Wished she could be.

Part of that roll.



..tune in next time when I explain our champion creation process akin to how the mice put together Cinderella's dress.
take all my laughter... if it were currency you would be a rich man.

Nice homage


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Rhno

Member

11-17-2012

post


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cwcriner

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Ah another "male gaze is done with malicious intent" thread I see....

and the parrot treats it with all the respect such a thread deserves; because lets face it, complaining that a mermaid has boobs is like complaining about how water is wet.


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Tadrin

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
50 pages.. no way I can read every one of these posts. To sum up though, despite what you may think, I am not the single point of failure in a scenario where a busty lady makes it through our pipeline. I'm here to be one of many voices that chimes in when appropriate. Can I flip a table or two? Absolutely, if I deem it unnecessary. I really wasn't too terribly concerned about Nami because, well, I think she's a cool design.

Did I notice the ruffles revealing some fish flesh? Yeah, I saw it months ago. Did I think it was particularly a good idea to poo-poo the design when it was on its way, when it was gathering momentum, and when it was being passionately worked on by the artist? Hell no. This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard. I didn't find the cleavage to be a monumental red flag.

When I saw the concept I was like.. look at this stuff, isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think this concept's complete? Wouldn't you think she's the girl, the girl that has, everything? Look at those frills, how they unfold. How many wonders can one mermaid hold? Looking around here you think, sure, she's got everything. She's got flippers and scepters a plenty. She's got dashes and splashes galore. You want complementary curves? She's got twenty. But who cares, no big deal, she wants more.

She wants to be where the players are, she wants to see, wants to see them fighting, thinking inside of those, what do you call them? Oh, brains! Flipping to mid you don't get to far. Supports are required for healing, casting, strolling along on that.. what's that word again? Lane! Up where they toss, up where they stun, up where they lane all day in the sun, wandering free, wished she could be, part of that role.

What would she pay, if she could play, out of those waters? What sort of gift, would let her lift, up to the game? Betcha in the rift, they get the drift, that they appreciate their healers. Crowd controllers, supporting rollers, ready to sustain, and ready to help with Carry's job. Lock up the gankers and get some assists. What's a Baron, and how does it, what's the word? Buff! When's it enough? Wouldn't they love, love to play some support up above?

Out of the sea.

Wished she could be.

Part of that roll.



..tune in next time when I explain our champion creation process akin to how the mice put together Cinderella's dress.
Nice job! Made my wife enjoy GD when she isn't even interested in League that much!


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phatcat09

Senior Member

11-17-2012

You're all missing the real issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTlmho_RovY