@IronStylus: I am very disappointed in you and the art team.

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BaronVonWaffle

Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
If I knew anything I'd tell you. Because your name is awesome.
That's the secret!

EVERYONE WITH AWESOME NAMES, ASK NOSY QUESTIONS!
we will find out everything riot has been planning before the night is out!


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Eruka Frog

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I want to make what people like.
i'm convinced your art team does not know HOW to make a character that doesn't have boobs out to tomorrow

it's not a question of desire at this point, it's lack of skill


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무정한 소라

Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
50 pages.. no way I can read every one of these posts. To sum up though, despite what you may think, I am not the single point of failure in a scenario where a busty lady makes it through our pipeline. I'm here to be one of many voices that chimes in when appropriate. Can I flip a table or two? Absolutely, if I deem it unnecessary. I really wasn't too terribly concerned about Nami because, well, I think she's a cool design.

Did I notice the ruffles revealing some fish flesh? Yeah, I saw it months ago. Did I think it was particularly a good idea to poo-poo the design when it was on its way, when it was gathering momentum, and when it was being passionately worked on by the artist? Hell no. This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard. I didn't find the cleavage to be a monumental red flag.

When I saw the concept I was like.. look at this stuff, isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think this concept's complete? Wouldn't you think she's the girl, the girl that has, everything? Look at those frills, how they unfold. How many wonders can one mermaid hold? Looking around here you think, sure, she's got everything. She's got flippers and scepters a plenty. She's got dashes and splashes galore. You want complementary curves? She's got twenty. But who cares, no big deal, she wants more.

She wants to be where the players are, she wants to see, wants to see them fighting, thinking inside of those, what do you call them? Oh, brains! Flipping to mid you don't get to far. Supports are required for healing, casting, strolling along on that.. what's that word again? Lane! Up where they toss, up where they stun, up where they lane all day in the sun, wandering free, wished she could be, part of that role.

What would she pay, if she could play, out of those waters? What sort of gift, would let her lift, up to the game? Betcha in the rift, they get the drift, that they appreciate their healers. Crowd controllers, supporting rollers, ready to sustain, and ready to help with Carry's job. Lock up the gankers and get some assists. What's a Baron, and how does it, what's the word? Buff! When's it enough? Wouldn't they love, love to play some support up above?

Out of the sea.

Wished she could be.

Part of that roll.



..tune in next time when I explain our champion creation process akin to how the mice put together Cinderella's dress.
I swear to got, if this music isn't sung for the login screen I will freaking flip a table. Get Saiyaka to sing once again for us.


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mogonk

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Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eruka Frog View Post
i'm convinced your art team does not know HOW to make a character that doesn't have boobs out to tomorrow

it's not a question of desire at this point, it's lack of skill
I have to disagree. They're really very talented people. Look up some of the concept artists and check out their body of work, it's quite impressive.

The problem is not that the artists aren't capable, the problem is that Riot has deliberately adopted hypersexualization of female champs as a marketing strategy.


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Imperfectable

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eruka Frog View Post
i'm convinced your art team does not know HOW to make a character that doesn't have boobs out to tomorrow
This is all because of Blair and Medusa, isn't it?


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Farstride

Senior Member

11-18-2012

I don't see the problem with this.

The new champ looks amazing, I'm getting her the first moment I can. IP all saved up.
Her dance got me the most, contact staff is something I love to do xD

But I really like the design, and I'm happy she's got boobs.


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mogonk

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Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
You have got to be kidding me...
Oh, but I'm not. Red attitudes in a nutshell:

Morello: I don't really care about this as an issue, nor do I think this is worth addressing as an ethical question. The only level on which I grant any validity to this criticism is in the sense that it may be poor marketing if it turns off a portion of our players. If most players like hypersexualized images then hypersexualized images are good.

IronStylus: This is an issue that has great personal importance to me. I think we need to think seriously as a company about diversity in champion design and how best to create balanced portrayals of women. Why, just the other day I whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror. If anything I can say that this cab was rare. But I thought 'Nah forget it' - 'Yo homes to Bel Air'. I pulled up to the house about 7 or 8 and I yelled to the cabbie 'Yo homes smell ya later'. I looked at my kingdom. I was finally there, to sit on my throne as the Prince of Bel Air.

I wish I were kidding. But that's what you two brought to the discussion.


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shoothoot2

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Member

11-18-2012

So Iron Stylus I think the big question on everyone's mind... Will there be a red haired skin for Nami?


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Jamvert

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
This is the valid conversation to pursue, because it speaks to variety as opposed to the moral foundations of sexualization or offense. I think this is the variety of silhouette that IronStylus refers to when we say we need to take a look - Zyra, Elise and Syndra have more similar form language that doesn't help the character jump off the page as much (even though the characters are designed to be different) and be memorable, where I think Diana does have that language.

You will see some old types of archetypes that we've learned from - sufficiently "derpy" (without good humor or cuteness) or unappealing archetypes (old, crippled man who is supposed to be a tactician but is just a bird-wizard) aren't something we'll go towards, but finding what replaces them is the interesting part - and importantly how to make it both cool and differentiated.
Dang. I hate when I see I rioter run down some of the character designs that to me, are exciting and unique, like Swain or Gragas.


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KT Samurai

Senior Member

11-18-2012

I guess my problem is that every time a female champ comes out we end up having the exact same conversation, that you guys could have done one of any thousands of things to address this weird little issue but opted not to. In Nami's case, Stylus basically said that he didn't want to stamp on a new artists' first champ. But isn't that kind of your job?

I assume you guys have some kind of system in place when you decided to go forward with a champ design. Does it not involve initial sketches that can be very easily altered? If not, why not? If not, why are you leaping directly to full-color concept art that, when completed, makes you feel like you shouldn't change it if the artist is new? Can you not give helpful notes to new talent or write something on a dry erase board like, "Let's tone down the cleavage for a couple months!".

Each time this happens we hear the same thing and I just have to wonder what's going on. There's a long, complicated system - I understand that - but what I don't understand is how this happens so often.

Stylus referenced the Dudepocalypse where 3 male bruiser champions were released all at once. With Diana being the only combo breaker female champs are undergoing a long-lasting Trampocalypse.