I'm trying out the new jungle in the pbe

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jars

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

have you tried any big dps ap junglers(ie cass/karth) or do they take too much damage from blue? I imagine zyra is completely nonviable now


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Felaedor

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Released Phoenix View Post
I don't see the point of making the jungle harder. That's counter-intuitive to Morellos' design principles. It shuts down champs that aren't viable in lane from ever being viable anywhere. He said this at the end of S1 and was the entire inspiration for the jungle rework.

Pick your guns and stick to them Morello.
There's a difference between "playable" and "viable".

Learn it.

Just because something CAN clear the jungle in 5 minutes safely doesn't mean it's going to be viable when other things can clear it in 3:30 with similar levels of safety.

The S2 Jungle increased the number of playable junglers, but dramatically decreased the number of viable ones. To be viable in S2, you MUST have heavy AoE damage. You MUST be able to sustain off boots+3pots. You MUST be at least a decent ganker or invader. That's a relatively small subset of champions.


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FrostyPuff

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Released Phoenix View Post
I don't see the point of making the jungle harder. .
The point was, so junglers wouldn't be able to gank lanes after red buff or blue etc. Their plan was to prevent snowballing early, thus balancing the game. Junglers with red would always be able to gank lanes with about full health and granting their allies or themselves first blood. It is common in mid-high elo games.


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IS118d1c68b944ead659909

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Released Phoenix View Post
I don't see the point of making the jungle harder
They have clearly explained why they did it. To lessen the early pressure on lanes from jungle.

I don't really see any other option how to do it. If you have better solution, then they are probably more than happy to hear it.


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Released Phoenix

Member

11-17-2012

@Felaedor There's so many things wrong with that, i don't even know where to start.
Shaco is a good example tho, he has none of that except for a strong ganking presence.
Perfects(EUW) has mained him to triple plat in S2.
I think you're heavily exaggerating what small differences there are between "viable" and "Playable".
For the record, anyone who can clear in under 5 mins is viable, i've proven that and so have plenty of other junglers.

@FrostyPuff
There's easier ways to accomplish that tho, like an exhaustion debuff on the jungler.
e.g "Killing such a difficult monster has tired you, you deal 80% less damage to enemy champions until this debuff wears off".


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Taiski

Junior Member

11-17-2012

Stonewall my man, I'd love to see you try out Elise in the new jungle!


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ZodiarkSavior

Senior Member

11-17-2012

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Originally Posted by Taiski View Post
Stonewall my man, I'd love to see you try out Elise in the new jungle!
I'd imagine she would fair easier, considering her spiders are so close to the Jungle monsters.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-17-2012

On PBE, I saw a Nocturne clear his whole jungle in 4:20 while we were just practicing it. I forgot to ask him how he did it tho.


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Jir

Junior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
For the record, anyone who can clear in under 5 mins is viable, i've proven that and so have plenty of other junglers.
Clear speed isn't the only requirement for a viable jungler. Dueling, ganking, counter-jungling and clear speed all contribute to a viable jungler.


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Felaedor

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Released Phoenix View Post
@Felaedor There's so many things wrong with that, i don't even know where to start.
Shaco is a good example tho, he has none of that except for a strong ganking presence.
Perfects(EUW) has mained him to triple plat in S2.
I think you're heavily exaggerating what small differences there are between "viable" and "Playable".
For the record, anyone who can clear in under 5 mins is viable, i've proven that and so have plenty of other junglers.
Shaco is the obvious exception to the rule.

The ability to instasmite a buff camp at level 1 can outweigh a lot of deficiencies.