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Entropy and Kitae's

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Euthrosyne

Senior Member

11-15-2012

I feel Kitae's shouldn't have been a copy of MBR when such an item really couldn't find play.

That said, what role can it fill that isn't already filled? Bruisers already have so many itemization choices, so how do you specifically target resist/durability builds?

My opinion is to go straight for the source, and make the armor/magic resist value act as a detriment. For example, just to throw out random scenarios, it could:

- apply a stacking debuff that reduces the amount of damage a target does based on its resist values.
- apply a debuff that is triggered when enemy champions damage allied champions (including self) that could hit at damage, MS/AS, resistances, etc based on their resists.

If I were to go out of the box, I would create a item that combined from Malady & Executioner's Calling and make that Kitae's. The stats would be up for grabs, but here's my take:

Cost: 1350 + 1825 + 625 (Recipe) = 3800

- 15% Crit
- 20% Life Steal
- 50% AS
- 30 AP

Passive #1: Your basic attacks reduce Magic Resist & Healing/Regeneration by 5%, stacking up to 4 times.
Passive #2: Your basic attacks also apply a debuff which triggers upon damage dealt to allied champions. Said debuff reduces a champion's damage by 50?% of their resistances of that champion for 3 seconds. Can only trigger on a champion every 10 seconds.
Active: Applies both passives in their full effect on a single champion, but will not stack on top of either passive. Magic resist reduction/Healing reduction will be refreshed, but damage debuff will not.

Example:
A Wild Jax appears from brush, and has 120 armor = 55% reduction. Application of the debuff would then reduce Jax's AD damage by 50% of that value, i.e. 27% for 3 seconds.

It probably has holes, and is really expensive/not expensive enough, but thoughts?


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Kitae is terrible because the 2.5% of someones max hp is less or equal to the on hit damage of the vastly superior wits end, and wits ends 50 mr is vastly superior to the 30 ad of kitae. Not to mention Wit's End is the cheaper item. There is no contest, the item is a noob trap. Wit's end is better in every situation.

Entropy is good on certain AD casters but they will never buy it. Why? Because frozen mallet exists and the slow from mallet is far superior to the extra AD on Entropy, and Sanguine blade is the superior AD item due to the lifesteal it grants. Its a good item but it is niche, most of the time people would rather buy a second Sanguine.


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LordofNarf

Recruiter

11-15-2012

I basically never build Entropy. It's big and expensive, so waiting for a BF sword is painful at most parts of the game. Even if I have the cash for the BF sword or the BF sword and the upgrade all at once, I usually want to turn my Phage into a Triforce or a Frozen Mallet. Also, the active feels bad if you use it and then they disengage.

As for Kitae's, the only time I built it is when I decided to build an 'all recurve bow items' build in one game. I think % health damage completely fails to accomplish it's goal (killing tanks?) because tanks tend to have more MR than anyone else. Building more pen in the damage type that you are actually spec'd into, or just more damage/crit/etc seems just always better. The only situation I might think to build this would be a high AS champion building Mpen (Teemo, maaaaaybe some Diana builds), and even then it doesn't feel efficient.


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larkhill

Senior Member

11-15-2012

kitae's has the same issues as madreds bloodrazer has on SR. decent enough concept but too expensive. also, the build path makes it hard to get. once u get the pickaxe, things like IE look way too promising to pass up. once u get the recurve bow, wits end and even ionic look promising

entropy has the issue of being a great concept but just not reliable enough to ever buy. if you need the slow, mallet is a better option. if u need the dmg, triforce is superior. theres simply not enough times when u need that mix of both and when those times to occur, you're much better off simply building triforce and getting the tankyness somewhere else


as other have mentioned, its moreso a matter of other items being too good than these 2 being bad. kitaes' price might be a bit high but it would still be viable the build path didnt make it so attractive to go elsewhere. for an item thats job is to deal dmg to tanks, its build path is too close to items that already do that like wits end and last whisper.

entropy has the exact same issue. its not really that entropy is bad, its just that the phage can be built into a tanky item or a dps item. hybrid items are great niche items that im glad riot includes (gunblade is a great example) but these have to also be cost efficient to make for that niche. no matter what champion you are, triforce will help you. there are VERY few champs that would want an entropy over a triforce and even those champs would probably go better with a triforce if they altered the rest of their build


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Talith PA

Senior Member

11-15-2012

I'm a big fan of entropy and regularly pick it up on Ezreal.


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Aphoristic

Recruiter

11-15-2012

If you are remaking them push hard to get Entropy in a state where it could be transfered to Rift.


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TheFinalAeon

Senior Member

11-15-2012

I played a lot of Dominion before (I don't play it so much now, but I still enjoy it), and I think I built Entropy a grand total of once. It's just not as useful as Frozen Mallet. Xypherous put it nicely in another thread, saying that it was basically "SR's Red Buff on BF Sword". So I guess you'd build it on champs that benefit greatly from Red Buff on SR.

I don't think I've ever build Kitae's. I'm not even 100% certain what that IS.


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Tempestphile

Senior Member

11-15-2012

I always build entrophy on Riven, mainly because the AD shield makes up for the lost hp compared to a mallet

I used to build Kitae on Udyr because of tiger stance, but that's always like the last item or second last item, where i am tanky enough already

But if you ask me, Kitae is a noob trap


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Elalya

Senior Member

11-15-2012

I build entropy over triforce on Ezreal right now because the reliable slow is really important on him.

Kitae's is flawed in the same way that Bloodrazor is flawed. Why don't you just make BOTRK a global item?


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FOODFOOD

Senior Member

11-15-2012

In my memory, I only remember buying Kitae's twice, and for the same reasons...
Once on Kayle, once on Warwick.
I was bot lane against someone that for some reason had lots of armor and HP with little MR, and had a 6th slot open in a long game.
I think Kitae's would make more sense if it build from something like Haunting Guise & Recurve Bow or Stinger & Long Sword. Not Haunting Guise & Stinger, because Teemo needs more buffs o.O

I know lots of people that build Entropy on Riven. It just seems too expensive for me to think about it, though.