Entropy and Kitae's

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Flt Lt Barkhorn

Senior Member

11-14-2012

I love Entropy. If I could buy it on SR and TT, I would. Phage is a great item in general, and a damage upgrade that has a guaranteed slow (as opposed to Trinity's chance-based procs) is really welcome to have.

I don't really have the opportunity to build Kitae's so I can't give an opinion about it.


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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

11-14-2012

This ranged melee thing you're doing with Hurricane and Tiamat opens opportunities for Entropy and Kitae's. Make Entropy a melee item and Kitae's a ranged item. Balance accordingly for each group of champs.


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blackDAILO

Senior Member

11-14-2012

I build Entropy over Mallet on KhaZix or WuKong when I need to prioritize damage over survivability late game since I keep Phage as a core on those champions through the game. It seems to be a bit too expensive for what it has to offer.

It would be better if more HP would be offered at the expense some AD and a more reliable slow. Maybe a recipe that builds from Phage, Ruby, and Pickaxe?


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ElevenOfClubs

Senior Member

11-14-2012

I always thought Entropy would be better if it just gave a small passive on hit true damage instead of the active. Maybe something like "Your autoattacks do an additional 10 true damage. This damage can crit."

Kitae's is a terrible item for the intended purpose of being anti-bruiser. Seriously, I bet ADC get more damage out of a Last Whisper than they would out of Kitae's in any reasonable situation where they'd want Kitae's (for less gold even).


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

11-14-2012

When Darius came out, people ooh'ed and ah'ed all over his AD ratios. People built Entropy.

We engaged in a lengthy discussion on the EUW chat about Entropy on Darius, and the math just bore out that triforce gave you about if not slightly more damage than Entropy (on Darius!), and infinitely more utility.

Triforce for most champions gives as much damage as Entropy. If you want the slow/surviveability, then you're going for Frozen Mallet. Ergo, it loses on the phage front.

If you want more damage, you'd usually get Sanguine Blade (for 700 gold less too!), LW, or IE, and get a lot more damage/stats you actually want. The HP on Entropy really isn't enough late game to make it comparable to the LS/crit/extra AD you get from the other offensive items.

In the end though, all the items you compare it to cost about the same, so it loses its slot to these other items, which would take the same slot.

The suggestion of making it weaker and cheaper is good. Then it won't compare with those other items for its slots, and with the phage upgrades it'd just compete for being a phage upgrade.

Also, the active is bad. It's an active, which is already something I am wary of having items balanced around on Dom, as late game the cooldown is longer than many ults, and weaker by far. Furthermore, it doesn't refresh, so as had been pointed out before is counter-synergistic.

Aside from Darius, Olaf too gets more damage from TF, he usually builds Mallet, I see a lot of Pantheons go Mallet/IE/other items over Entropy anyway, and just keep the phage as a phage, etc. Every time I see someone build an Entropy, most people post-game agree it was a mistake, and it's not just hive-mind, it's how it works.

Kitae is something I usually only see on Kog'Maws. It's an item you need to decide ahead of game you want to build, and make sure your runes/the rest of the build support it, it's not something you can just spec into in-game to counter the opposition building more HP. It needs a fundamental change. Being a Malady upgrade is a good suggestion.


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DG Denz Brujah

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Obligitory ... <sarcasm> Whats a Kitae ? </sarcasm>

I've seen a few people build Entropy on Durius but not much outside of that


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SlasherBag

Senior Member

11-14-2012

I think I've bought Entropy on only Riven (maybe Talon?) but its not something I could justify for the cost, and is really what I have as an issue for most Dom items. So, small rant relevant to the current topic:

Gold cost of items and what they build from are simply not ideal when they build from things that are that expensive with little utility.

Example: Kitaes (costs 2725) and builds from two 0 utility items into an item for potentially shredding tanks.The problem with this is you will only see it on certain carries and late game at that when they have full builds, and even then there are usually better options. The only times I could justify buying this is on Kayle (mr shred) or Kog (synergy with q+w). I would rather have an even worse %health if it built from stinger+malady with a malady-esque effect so that there can be an mr shred (actually kill tanks), cdr, and AS just for the earlier utility. I'mot saying this is a good idea, just saying early utility is more useful in dom where full on AD carry builds normally don't happen.

An example of an item that is good: Wardens mail, affordable on any midgame budget, builds from useful components so you don't gimp yourself early, and its passive is nearly as good as its upgraded brother (which you can still get lategame if you need to).

My big point here is that I aim to only build items that will help me in multiple ways before completion via useful components. I can almost never justifying buying a pure AD item unless I have to (longswords for various early game items). or as items (daggers for zeal/mal/stinger). If I have to buy a recurve bow/BF sword/giants belt, I will avoid them entirely for the cheaper option unless the bigger item has another useful component.

TLDR: remove recurve bow from kitae and add an AS utility item in its place (stinger,malady,zeal)
Entropy: Swap BF sword for pickaxe (and reduce total AD), brutalizer (reduce total ad, add arp+cdr).
I want more options from early items without breaking the bank I may or may not have.


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Westlin

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Entropy will get build every once in a while but since Trinity is core on a lot of the champs that would want Entropy it gets overlooked. However Entropy does get build on some ad casters like Panth as a dmg alternative to Frozen Mallet when they are finishing their build. Also Entropy isn't bad for off-carry builds since it provides decent ad while giving health. I build it more than I build Mallet.

Kitae's is ****.


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Thundarianjunk

Senior Member

11-14-2012

I find entropy to be an awkward item that doesn't really do any one thing to make it good enough of a pick over other items, I would vote rework on this.

I think kitaes has a place in the game still though.


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TechPrince

Senior Member

11-14-2012

There are better alternatives than these items, so yes they are worth remaking.