Syndra is the worst champion in the game.

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Snipawolfe

Senior Member

11-15-2012

If you think Syndra is UP, go watch PhantomL0rd's stream and be amazed.


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SqueekyNinja

Junior Member

11-15-2012

Syndra is pretty scary if the person knows how to play her right. She has a slow, stun, and a knock back not to mention she can check bushes with her Q.


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SinisterBlack

Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantPyrophore View Post
This.

Orianna ****s all over her utility, Orianna zones better, Orianna pokes better, Orianna scales 515k times better and gets scaling on her AA for epic free harass as well.

Syndra still sucks. The End.
Orianna's utility is as follows: A 40% slow every nine seconds at max level and an AOE teamfighting disrupt every 90 seconds at max level per team fight, as well as a 240 shield at max level every 9 seconds. She can also technically sight with her ball. So for the record that's four different utility usages for her, barring any of the damage itself that her abilities do. We'll talk about that and her scaling in a moment.

Syndra's Utility is as follows. A 45% slow every 8 seconds at max level, with 125 more range over Orianna's. An aoe stun every 14 seconds that closes in on 1000 range if used right, and/or an aoe/cone knockback/disengage. She has vision with her w as well.

They have very comparable utility, and very similar utility, in truth.

Their damage however is a different story.

Orianna's q does 180 +50% ap at max level.
Syndra's q does 264.5 +69% ap at max level.

To make that simple for you that is 84.5 and 19% more ap damage every single q, and Orianna only has a second shorter cd at max level, up until then it's higher or the same.

They are very comparable champions. Very comparable.

After that, Orianna can slow you with another 250 +70% damage on her w.
Syndra can slow you with another 240 +70% damage on her w. Thats only 10 damage for Orianna, and from the q's Syndra is still winning in damage.

Now here's the difference. While those two abilities, barring her ult, are orianna's only damage, Syndra has a third ability, and a stun on top of that which allows her to land another q, which does 250 +40% damage, plus a 1.5 second stun, which then allows one to land another 264.5 +69% damage q on top of all that.

Syndra clearing does more raw damage. I don't understand where you're getting the horrible base stats from, or horrible scaling, as if you look anywhere at all you'll see she has very comparable base damages and scaling. The only difference is it might be harder to land. Hence the high-skill-cap champion.


As for Cassiopeia. People have long since known she does great damage with low cd's. The point however is that Syndra does comparable damage with comparable range and again falls upon skill rather than a clear lost scenario, as all the damage in the lane is dependent upon landing the abilities, on both sides.


As for brand having short cds? Please. PLEASE.

Cassiopeia: Q is 3 seconds.
Syndra: Q is 4 seconds.
Orianna: Q is 3 seconds. (at max level)
Brand: Q is *6* seconds? Double the time of each of the others?

His Main nuke is at 10 seconds, his W. All of the previous champions have their nukes on 3-4 second cds, and in the case of cassiopeia, have a subsequent ability at a .5 cd.

There is a very specific reason for this. He is a BURST mage. He BURSTS and then is on cd for a fair amount of time until his combo is back up. All three of the other mages are DPS/Sustain damage Mages, and do comparable damage over time, couples with some more utility in the cases of Syndra and Orianna.

"You idiot, Syndra doesn't have range, idiots like you just see her W range..."

If you are having trouble landing her W that is your problem. Boots 2 or no I have no trouble landing it, given that it has a 950 range. She has no range? Look up any of the champions we've been talking about. She falls within 25-50 of all of them, if not higher range in certain circumstances. She has something like 125 range over Orianna with her w. Math says you're wrong. Its not a matter of opinion.

Button mashing to set up? Maybe if you're mashing buttons sure. If you're playing intelligently like you should be, if you can, then you're using the time prior to weaken your enemy and get them ready for a death. Used properly, Syndra's Ult can do 1260 +140% damage to a single target. If you aren't, and caste as is, its 540 +60% damage, which as far as single target nukes go, is not too bad.

Cassi only gets the move speed if she hits you. Don't let her hit you. She cannot then 'easydodge' if you can aim your spells while moving and dodging, and thus, AGAIN, it is up to SKILL. Therefore, HIGH skill cap champion.

Every argument you have made shows that you truly do not understand that concept.

Land her spells, she does the damage. Do not land her spells, she will not do the damage, and that is your fault. End of story. I've shown you the math. Whether you accept it or not is irrelevant because it says you're wrong.

I don't think she's OP or have a "hate-on" for her. I love playing her. Her champion design calls for high skill, that is all. If you call that UP you'd be wrong again, but either way I do not think she is in need of any touching up, or heaven forbid, a rework.


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Thundawich

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Member

11-15-2012

I personally have no problems with syndra, her damage is just applied over a larger timespan rather then the traditional burst we see from most of the more popular mids. From personal experience she tends to function extremely well versus melee mids like evelyn and diana. when built with CDR and resistances i find she fares well.


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Nishaven90

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Syndra is awful in team fights.


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Beija

Senior Member

11-15-2012

@Invit and Radiant

I'm really happy you guys are trying to explain to these people on forums why Syndra is still bad.

Syndra is trash tier; I've did the math comparison in two different threads why she sucks.

Syndra is too unreliable in every situation.

CC: Even though on paper she sounds like a god, it's unreliable thus useless.

Damage: Unreliable as you can see EVERYTHING coming. Oh Syndra is stacking orbs.. I wonder what shes going to do with 3 orbs out..

She still gets countered by boots. Hows that for a mindfu*k.


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LimesV

Junior Member

11-15-2012

@Sinister black
You have some of the evidence posted but you are forgetting some of the other pieces that orianna brings to the table. I'm going to fill in the blanks where you missed some key points in orianna's favor.

Quote:
Orianna's utility is as follows: A 40% slow every nine seconds at max level
What you forget here is that not only does it slow by 40% but also boosts speed by 40% so in the right hands this is an 80% speed advantage rather than just a flat 40. That is a huge difference when it comes to chase/escape that syndra really can't make up for considering this attack also does more damage in orianna's favor.

Quote:
Orianna's q does 180 +50% ap at max level.
Syndra's q does 264.5 +69% ap at max level.

To make that simple for you that is 84.5 and 19% more ap damage every single q, and Orianna only has a second shorter cd at max level, up until then it's higher or the same.
Here you mention the 1 second CD but you don't factor in potential damage that 1 second provides. If we compare the numbers again adding that 25% less CD into the damage output you get
Orianna Q: 225+62.5%AP (multiplied by 1.25 to factor in CDR)
Syndra Q 265+69.5% AP
now when you look at it Syndra still comes out ahead but by barely anything.

Quote:
Now here's the difference. While those two abilities, barring her ult, are orianna's only damage, Syndra has a third ability, and a stun on top of that which allows her to land another q, which does 250 +40% damage, plus a 1.5 second stun, which then allows one to land another 264.5 +69% damage q on top of all that.
Now again here you forget that Orianna's Command protect also does damage to enemies it passes through. when you consider that most of the time the obvious shield target will be the initiator/tank who is in the middle of the enemy team you can see how that protect damage can start to stack up when it hits multiple enemies. lets also factor in CD as compared to damage.
Orianna E:244+40% AP (multiplied by 1.36 to factor in CDR)
Syndra E: 250+40% AP
Here again we see that syndra barely scrapes ahead the difference being miniscule.

Now when it comes to damage on the ult there is no doubt syndra wins against 1 champ but again oriannas has pretty easy potential to hit at least 3 up to the entire team and make it easy for your teammates to blow them up with aoe and make all your other moves a sinch to stack on the entire enemy team.

This is why I feel like Syndra just needs that extra something which I have suggested here http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2803363
Orianna does the same damage on every skill even when you compare q's (only losing a tiny portion which orianna easily makes up for in her passive) and orianna brings so much more to the table when it comes to teamfights thanks to her ability to constantly spam her abilities and provide so much utility to the team.
I believe my suggestion could greatly benefit syndra making her Q also a spammable utility/kite, adding slow and some more AOE to her ult and adding a unique dynamic to her "high skill cap"(otherwise known as miss anything and your damage is derp) playstyle that would allow her to create unique ball placement patterns that are a threat to the enemy. As it stands now her Q is just a visible burst damage that makes it easy for the enemy team to know what's coming and that just isn't enough.


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Invictrix

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterBlack View Post
Orianna's utility is as follows: A 40% slow every nine seconds at max level and an AOE teamfighting disrupt every 90 seconds at max level per team fight, as well as a 240 shield at max level every 9 seconds. She can also technically sight with her ball. So for the record that's four different utility usages for her, barring any of the damage itself that her abilities do. We'll talk about that and her scaling in a moment.

Syndra's Utility is as follows. A 45% slow every 8 seconds at max level, with 125 more range over Orianna's. An aoe stun every 14 seconds that closes in on 1000 range if used right, and/or an aoe/cone knockback/disengage. She has vision with her w as well.

They have very comparable utility, and very similar utility, in truth.

Their damage however is a different story.

Orianna's q does 180 +50% ap at max level.
Syndra's q does 264.5 +69% ap at max level.

To make that simple for you that is 84.5 and 19% more ap damage every single q, and Orianna only has a second shorter cd at max level, up until then it's higher or the same.

They are very comparable champions. Very comparable.

After that, Orianna can slow you with another 250 +70% damage on her w.
Syndra can slow you with another 240 +70% damage on her w. Thats only 10 damage for Orianna, and from the q's Syndra is still winning in damage.

Now here's the difference. While those two abilities, barring her ult, are orianna's only damage, Syndra has a third ability, and a stun on top of that which allows her to land another q, which does 250 +40% damage, plus a 1.5 second stun, which then allows one to land another 264.5 +69% damage q on top of all that.

Syndra clearing does more raw damage. I don't understand where you're getting the horrible base stats from, or horrible scaling, as if you look anywhere at all you'll see she has very comparable base damages and scaling. The only difference is it might be harder to land. Hence the high-skill-cap champion.


As for Cassiopeia. People have long since known she does great damage with low cd's. The point however is that Syndra does comparable damage with comparable range and again falls upon skill rather than a clear lost scenario, as all the damage in the lane is dependent upon landing the abilities, on both sides.


As for brand having short cds? Please. PLEASE.

Cassiopeia: Q is 3 seconds.
Syndra: Q is 4 seconds.
Orianna: Q is 3 seconds. (at max level)
Brand: Q is *6* seconds? Double the time of each of the others?

His Main nuke is at 10 seconds, his W. All of the previous champions have their nukes on 3-4 second cds, and in the case of cassiopeia, have a subsequent ability at a .5 cd.

There is a very specific reason for this. He is a BURST mage. He BURSTS and then is on cd for a fair amount of time until his combo is back up. All three of the other mages are DPS/Sustain damage Mages, and do comparable damage over time, couples with some more utility in the cases of Syndra and Orianna.

"You idiot, Syndra doesn't have range, idiots like you just see her W range..."

If you are having trouble landing her W that is your problem. Boots 2 or no I have no trouble landing it, given that it has a 950 range. She has no range? Look up any of the champions we've been talking about. She falls within 25-50 of all of them, if not higher range in certain circumstances. She has something like 125 range over Orianna with her w. Math says you're wrong. Its not a matter of opinion.

Button mashing to set up? Maybe if you're mashing buttons sure. If you're playing intelligently like you should be, if you can, then you're using the time prior to weaken your enemy and get them ready for a death. Used properly, Syndra's Ult can do 1260 +140% damage to a single target. If you aren't, and caste as is, its 540 +60% damage, which as far as single target nukes go, is not too bad.

Cassi only gets the move speed if she hits you. Don't let her hit you. She cannot then 'easydodge' if you can aim your spells while moving and dodging, and thus, AGAIN, it is up to SKILL. Therefore, HIGH skill cap champion.

Every argument you have made shows that you truly do not understand that concept.

Land her spells, she does the damage. Do not land her spells, she will not do the damage, and that is your fault. End of story. I've shown you the math. Whether you accept it or not is irrelevant because it says you're wrong.

I don't think she's OP or have a "hate-on" for her. I love playing her. Her champion design calls for high skill, that is all. If you call that UP you'd be wrong again, but either way I do not think she is in need of any touching up, or heaven forbid, a rework.
This argument is kind of meaningless at this point. The season 3 items are this close to being released and we are going to have an entirely new tier list the minute they hit.

I already have my roster set for season 3 (except for the jungle portion which I am going to have to develop once I can actually play in the new jungle) and syndra isn't on it.

If she is on yours good for you I wish you well maybe she can do something with the new Archangels staff especially with the huge Rabadon nerf.

See you in season 3.


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Beija

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LimesV View Post
snip
I've posted in another thread(which is more than likely buried by OP threads by now) Orianna's overall damage vs Syndra's on equal terms and Syndra does come out ahead on every skill by 280 some damage.

The reason why Orianna trumps Syndra is simply because Orianna playstyle and kit is more reliable in all aspects.

Orianna can CC, she can damage, Hell her W + Ult combo has enough potential to get a pentakill if done correctly which really isn't hard to do now that her Command:Protect range is ridiculously long now.


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Ecclesian

Senior Member

11-15-2012

"Sometimes the other team has Elise or Syndra or a bad/stupid support, and your own team looks like it wins and it will."

I know this is a thread about Syndra but I couldn't help myself seeing as how Elise was an instant fav even before the buff. I have consistently done VERY well with Elise and own people. I went positive the large majority of my games with Elise even before the buff.

BTW I have seen some very good Syndra players. She is kind of a secret weapon. You gota ult first then thrust to stun an entire enemy team.

I downvote this thread...