Regarding AP champions in Dominion and BFT

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Das Strychnine

Senior Member

11-14-2012

@Riot

Bruisers have been dominating Dominion for the past, forever? Are you really going to listen to whiners who are mad that they can't 2 shot a Cassio with Jax or Khazix any more?

The item is perfectly fine it's just people are not used to seeing casters going toe to toe with the "OP" champions.

Bruisers are so spoiled in Dominion and just basically want to be able to faceroll anything, I'm not saying a 5 Bruiser team would win, a team still needs to be balanced, but an Irelia or Jax does expect to 2 shot an AD Carry or AP carry and take almost no damage while doing so, they talk about casters having CC to kite, bruisers have CC as well, many of them have stuns, knock ups, constant slows, etc.

So please before you go ahead and nerf what is probably the best thing that has happened to AP champs in Dominion in a long time, wait a few weeks for people to play tournaments and get used to this item, Dominion players love to cry OP as soon as something is released and Dominion is a very funny place, good players will understand what is actually OP, Kassadins mobility for example. As opposed to 99% of players who just look at: omg that Brand killed me in 1 combo even thou I build full armor and 0 MR, Brand OP, nerf Riot pls. That's why at low elo people still think Shaco, Rammus and Akali are good, this is a great start towards the end of melee "facerolling", please don't screw it up by giving in to whiners.

It's not just in this mode that Bruisers are out of control and I believe even Morello has admitted it.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

11-14-2012

It will behoove you to assume that people can have a rational disagreement without them thinking the other side is stupid or just plain bad.

Many people on both sides of the argument are high Elo, have experience, and though they disagree they do not resort to calling their opposites in the argument "low elo" or "whiners".

Also, the item only gives 250 HP, it doesn't really stop you from killing the squishies, but rather lets them kill you back.
And Irelia never one-shotted anyone, honestly. Jax, it feels like he one shotted you cause you've been stunned, but bruisers almost by definition deal consistent dps - you feel one-shotted in comparison due to all the resistances they spent much of their gold on - which makes the expectation of taking less damage something to be well, expected.

So, do yourself a favour, and ask yourself if you can't rephrase your post, which really didn't need its own topic. This isn't the TT forum where everything is new so people feel the need to create 10 threads on the very same topic. That kinda defeats the whole concept of centralized discussion, which leads to results, and the exchanging of opinions. But then again, it doesn't seem you wish to exchange opinions with anyone, but merely to broadcast your own whining about whiners.


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Das Strychnine

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
Also, the item only gives 250 HP, it doesn't really stop you from killing the squishies, but rather lets them kill you back.
And Irelia never one-shotted anyone, honestly. Jax, it feels like he one shotted you cause you've been stunned, but bruisers almost by definition deal consistent dps - you feel one-shotted in comparison due to all the resistances they spent much of their gold on - which makes the expectation of taking less damage something to be well, expected.

.

I'm glad you hit the nail on the had for me and I must say you worded it far better than I could.

You basically just said bruisers have CC (stuns), Huge sustained DPS, okay Jax won't 1 shot a Cassio, he'll 3 shot her, and even thou they spend so much "gold" on all these resistances, they can still put out that kind of damage.

At the moment Bruisers have almost twice the amount of average HP already, build 2-3 tanky items and then 1 or 2 DPS items (usually Triforce) and go to town 3 shotting everything while tanking enough damage that should've killed any one else.

As soon as casters get 1 item that might make Bruisers have to think before jumping on them everyone acts like it's madness, please tell me how is that fair?

The only melee champs I ever play sometimes when I'm really bored is Wukong and Shaco for the lols and I easily go legendary with both compared to when I play AP champions where I spent 90% of fight running, I understand ranged champions should be expected to kite, but I'm not kiting to just be a pain for whatever bruisers are trying to kill me, I'm kiting because one slip up and I'm instantly gibbed. Sure bruisers are mad that a Brand can maybe take 20% of their Health with 1 spell, but do you hear yourselves when writting that? Bruisers can generally bring a caster to more than half health as soon as they close the gap, which is not difficult any more considering most bruisers have gap closers and CC.

I believe Riot has done a great thing by introducing these items, now if they could do something for AD carries next the world would be great as I honestly am getting sick and tired of steam rolling 4 AD teams because people won't play anything else with fear that they'll suck at it.


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Orphane

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Well, the problem right now with BFT isn't that it's good on traditional mages, cause it is. The problem is that it's taking the mages/ability users (like some tanks/bruisers) who were already good and bumping them up to lol %hp damage (in some cases even more % hp damage, lookin' at you Brand and Amumu!)


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Das Strychnine

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orphane View Post
Well, the problem right now with BFT isn't that it's good on traditional mages, cause it is. The problem is that it's taking the mages/ability users (like some tanks/bruisers) who were already good and bumping them up to lol %hp damage (in some cases even more % hp damage, lookin' at you Brand and Amumu!)

Amumu was already considered one of the strongest tanks in Dominion, Amumu and Malphite are pretty much god tier when it comes to choosing a tank, is that the items fault or the champion? The champions were already strong before. It makes me laugh that we put up with Frozen Heart, Trinity Force, Wardens Mail etc for so long but as soon as an item does damage it's OP, because defensive items can not in any way be OP, amirite.


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Tempestphile

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Tell me, do you play Yorick or Teemo?

BFT on Teemo is a big joke as it is right now.


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Das Strychnine

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempestphile View Post
Tell me, do you play Yorick or Teemo?

BFT on Teemo is a big joke as it is right now.
Yorick has been considered Op since forever. Teemos with sweeper dfg and good map control have always been strong as well. Sounds like the champions are the problem. You can remove BFT. Yorick will still be here.

Oh and let's not forget bruisers received a strong indirect buff by the huge nerf DFG got but let's forget that and just not give casters anything to compensate for it. Poor bruisers need to keep dominating dominion unchallenged for another year


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Das Strychnine

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Oh and I didnv't answer your question no I don't play Yorick or Teemo or any cheesy champs unlike the jax/darius/wukong players complaining about this item


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Reynmaker

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Just to chime in here on the Blackfire thing. I'll lay it out as I view the maps and itemization for brusiers and AP bursters. TT and CS favour bruisers, due to the map design and the fact that it's all about skirmishing. The consistent DPS and inherent gap closing design of these champs favour them on these maps.

There is also a lot of options by way of defense against ranged AD and AP for bruisers to build, so a pure tank build plus consistent auto attack DPS have made bruisers dominant.

The problem for AP casters is their itemization, a bruiser can go Lucidity+Ghostblade and get significant CDR, and still build tanky+Damage, AP casters cannot do the same. They can go CDR with Athene's or now Blackfire, but all they have is health items; Rod of Ages and Crystal sceptre give health. What AP casters need on these maps is a Glacial shroud or Sunfire Cape that gives significant stats beneficial to casters. They need an AP+ Armor + Movespeed/CDR item. Something that provides survivability stats and apposed to just health stats.

What Riot has done is simply created a mega-ultron-zerg item, that bypasses the problem of AP survivability on these maps and said hey, every spell now has a hard hitting DoT.

Much like how I can build Jax with CDR, MR and Armor, survive an AP casters burst and burst them down while they wait for cooldowns, AP casters need to be able to build CDR, AP and MR/Armour to survive sustained damage and get off more burst combos. They do not need Itachi's Mangekou Sharingan, even in a made up world, that **** was OP.


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kirillian

Senior Member

11-14-2012

The real problem is that you can take this item on...well...anyone...and it's AMAZING. Do you have a spell? Check! You too can use this item effectively! So that means that there is a small subset of champs that can't use the item very well...and tryndamere already had a hard time on dominion anyway.


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