Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


No Thornmail was a bad idea.

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Aiicoothxbro

Junior Member

11-14-2012

Without thornmail; vayne will be doing ALL KINDZZZZZ OF DAMAGE.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FearAzrael

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
mcswaggerjagger:
firstly, i dont see why it was removed in the first place. now all a vayne or mf has to do is get a few early kills. Farm well and then by mid to late game they shred everything to pieces. If they have a comp liike galio, malphite, voli etc to protect them they just stred and without thorn mail there is no direct counter.



Quote:
now all a vayne or mf has to do is get a few early kills. Farm well and then by mid to late game they shred everything to pieces.


Quote:
now all a vayne or mf has to do is get a few early kills. Farm well.




ಠ_ಠ


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BlazzedTroll

Senior Member

11-14-2012

It's been said, but I'll say it again anyway. FH or Omen. All thornmail was was armor and blowback. It countered ADC to hard with 30% return dmg because they would basically kill themselves. With FH... they attack much slower.. you have way more armor.. and you get bonus stats. With Omen.. they are slowed on hit and attack speed is still slowed. You get an active that will slow everyone (full AD team as suggested by one is instantly dead basically).

Yea thornmail was good.. but it gave tanks 30% of the other teams damage. as well as anyone else who bough it. The alternatives work to counter by actually slowing them instead of just killing them. This way your team still relies on its own damage output.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shamanb

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Cause Vayne or MF are tough to burst right . . .

Sry but you can't say they have mal and Galio to protect without saying what the other team might have ...

Let's say other team has Mumu and Olaf... or just OLAF. Pop ult ... pop ghost . . . carry vanishes.
Let's say they have Rengar too. Olaf + Mumu + Rengar. Mumu goes pop ult forcing team fight, Olaf pops all and charges carry, Rengar goes in stealth and burst carry too.

We got Galio and Malphite left vs Mumu + Rengar, and maybe Olaf, although he might be dead. But Vayne or MF are already LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG dead.

EDIT: Just to get back on topic, I also don't understand why they removed it though ... but it ain't no big deal.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Naxc

Senior Member

11-14-2012

So what you're saying is that a team should be punish by having a carry and selecting 2 allies to protect their carry?

This is completely stupid.

Team composition is important, if you take 3 brawler and you're beaten because the other team took a carry and 2 tanks to protect her, well their team comp was better than yours and they are actually playing skillfully.

The game doesn't start when you're on the map, it starts at character selection. Having characters with abilities that fit well together should be rewarding.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Infirc

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Naxc:
So what you're saying is that a team should be punish by having a carry and selecting 2 allies to protect their carry?

This is completely stupid.

Team composition is important, if you take 3 brawler and you're beaten because the other team took a carry and 2 tanks to protect her, well their team comp was better than yours and they are actually playing skillfully.

The game doesn't start when you're on the map, it starts at character selection. Having characters with abilities that fit well together should be rewarding.

this


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jolteøn

Senior Member

11-14-2012

1) Randuin's
2) Use the active
3)???
4) Profit


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Balchord

Junior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
CoonSan CoonSan:
Because thornmail is a complete noob trap. Frozen heart/Randy Omen are far better. Hell just getting a wardens mail is a million times better then thornmail.


Randuins omen is a counter to rengar, but that lesser armor is so handy, and every garen should build a frozen heart right? No thronmail is a primary answer to AD bruisers, and removing it is nonsense.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FOODFOOD

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
McSwaggerJagger:
Now all a vayne or mf has to do is get a few early kills.

Why did you use those two as examples?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Balchord

Junior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
BlazzedTroll:
It's been said, but I'll say it again anyway. FH or Omen. All thornmail was was armor and blowback. It countered ADC to hard with 30% return dmg because they would basically kill themselves. With FH... they attack much slower.. you have way more armor.. and you get bonus stats. With Omen.. they are slowed on hit and attack speed is still slowed. You get an active that will slow everyone (full AD team as suggested by one is instantly dead basically).

Yea thornmail was good.. but it gave tanks 30% of the other teams damage. as well as anyone else who bough it. The alternatives work to counter by actually slowing them instead of just killing them. This way your team still relies on its own damage output.

The blowback is something that is built into how a lot of these heavy ADC work, given the lifesteal and heals a lot of them either have or build, if you cant mitigate that as a tank then you cant fight them. The concern becomes that as a tank, you have to build both frozen heart AND wicked hatchet to stop the unending lifesteal. This doesn't allow for much variance in tank styles


12