Fix Blackfire please

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WaterD103

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Well, Sauron, I wouldn't say we agree on exactly the problems and how to solve them (For exampel the big revive discussion, and may think Trinity force and frozen hearth may have to go etc).
BFT is kind of too broken tough, that's true. Moreso because it rewards dot champs mostly and dot champs were already the strongest ap in the map.


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boomshackalak

Member

11-14-2012

Teemo is already played in 45% of dominion games with the 5th highest win rate of all champs. Now he's has got an OP item to help him even further.

Did he really need that? Did AP champs really have that much of an issue? I feel some bruisers and AD casters being OP is the bigger issue (but they are not half as annoying).

Uch, I'm getting sick of this..


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Koravel

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauron View Post
I'm personally of the opinion that Blackfire Torch has no place in this game due to it making many strong champions even stronger, and most balanced champions still balanced. It is a mess of an item, as I'm sure you'll have found today by spectating featured matches where even Malphites, Yoricks, and Urgots are using BFT with success.

Also, what was the point of reducing mana regen on this map? This didn't impact the top set of champions at all, but it did nerf the balanced and underpowered sets. Kha'Zix, Jayce, Diana, Darius, Maokai, Teemo, Lulu, Wukong and Jax are all still manaless champions as far as any competent player is concerned, and manatank Kassadin couldn't care less about regen. On the flipside, Viktor-level/style mages are having even more issues which the new items don't really help. Reducing the map's chalice effect only increased the distance between the OPs and the non-OPs.

Nome, we have a community here that has theorycrafted solutions and mathed out tons of options all the way since the beginning of the year. Feel free to ask us for feedback on ideas, because we have a lot of constructive discussion to give, and some of the high EU players are also here on the NA forums to centralize communication.
Sauron is entirely on mark, as usual.

Mana regen has done nothing to the OP champs, but hurt the ones that were already less played. Please restore the normal aura, whatever Riot was trying to accomplish with that failed miserably.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

11-14-2012

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Originally Posted by Koravel34 View Post
Sauron is entirely on mark, as usual.

Mana regen has done nothing to the OP champs, but hurt the ones that were already less played. Please restore the normal aura, whatever Riot was trying to accomplish with that failed miserably.
The mana regen aura needs to be removed entirely with a new aura added that gives mana regen equal to a % of a users AP so only mages get it and not AD casters such as yorrick or urgot.


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George W Nome

Game Designer

11-14-2012
5 of 10 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauron View Post
Everyone I run into in high Elo seems to be ready to quit now too. I can't say I don't sympathize. "RiotNome" is quickly becoming the sarcastic meme response in allchat, and a discussion on how specious the changes so far are comes up every 7 or so minutes in the DD chat.

BFT needs to be hotfixed or removed. It serves nothing other than to cause frustration from the players of champions it is supposed to help, and to cause resentment from players of all Elos because it confirms their feedback isn't wanted.

Look, we don't mind us being a testing ground during this pre-season, but don't act like the issues with the map haven't been identified because buzzword buzzword buzzword. We aren't interviewing you; we're trying to help you do the right thing. We know exactly what's wrong with the map and what changes need to be made. Many of us are game designers ourselves, after all.
And what changes are those?

What's your plan to stop Dominion from hemorrhaging players? What fixes can we do that addresses the concerns of the top 0.001% of the Dominion community that will fix the perception issues of the 99.99%?? What would you suggest we do to convince everyone that's quit on Dominion to come back? How do we message to players that Shaco isn't the best champ on Dominion? How do we address the complaint that a lot of players have of the lack of progression? The lack of game phases? The lack of differentiation from game to game? You focus on Blackfire Torch, but among the sea of real problems that Dominion has, that really should be barely a consideration. It's imba. OK, we nerf it next patch. Hell, I already did.

These aren't buzzwords. This is the reality of Dominion. We're in do-or-die mode. If you really love Dominion, then subscribe yourself to the program and dig down deep. The rug's going to be pulled out from beneath your feet over and over again, and you'll have to get used to that.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
What's your plan to stop Dominion from hemorrhaging players?
Remove Darius.

No more Hemorrhaging.


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WaterD103

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Ok, if you care about hemorrhaging players, what you need is ranked. I know what you gonna say" that is not my department". Ok that's fair, then you can't really help dominion

Quote:
What would you suggest we do to convince everyone that's quit on Dominion to come back?
Add ranked
Quote:
How do we message to players that Shaco isn't the best champ on Dominion?
Add ranked
Quote:
How do we address the complaint that a lot of players have of the lack of progression?The lack of game phases?
Ignore them, dominion is not for them. That to me is like a chess player asking "What change could be make to adress the the complaints that chess doesn't have enough dexterity skill tests?" The answer is to ignore them.
Quote:
The lack of differentiation from game to game?
yeah SR is so different game to game.

I already made a thread about my perceived problems of dominion and solutions http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2468673 a little outdated.

But all those problems are insignificant to the part that there is no ranked.

Bad claims about what happen in the game has been made since ever. RTS defenses can't be breaken, too much about rushes. Fighting games are about fireball spams. In magic counterspells decks are the best. etc etc. Bad claims were made always, EVIDENCE is what proves otherwise, that's about it.

When in Texas holdem somebody points out that the game is pure luck, you point out to the evidence that you can see tournament and professional players winning a lot of money consistently.
Etc etc. Ranked is the only real solution, because ranked creates evidence to work on.

Oh you are not in that department, then you really can't help dominion hemorrhaging players. But if you still want to make the game better , a game that nobody will play, I already made some suggestions in that thread.


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Purpleskoal

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
What's your plan to stop Dominion from hemorrhaging players?
Well, most people have been begging for ranked ladder for quite awhile.


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George W Nome

Game Designer

11-14-2012
6 of 10 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpleskoal View Post
Well, most people have been begging for ranked ladder for quite awhile.
This is a myth I want to address right now so we don't have to talk about this any more. I've said many times that there's a lack of causation here for many reasons.

1. Ranked makes up a negligible amount of our playerbase for SR and TT. The vast majority of our players do not play ranked, and have displayed no intention to.
2. Now, the argument can be made that the LACK of ranked has negative implications like discouraging organized play and competitive interest. But this is where we run into the causation issue.

I'm very well aware that the Dominion community wants ranked real bad--I do too. No really, I do! I stick up for you guys because I'm passionate about Dominion getting attention. I have my own reasons and intentions, but first and foremost I believe it's an important step to community stabilization. But don't use it as a scapegoat for why the mode is unpopular, because you're assuming causation when #1 (and I'm fully aware you guys don't have access to the statistics) speaks quite to the contrary.


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Argodis

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
And what changes are those?

What's your plan to stop Dominion from hemorrhaging players? What fixes can we do that addresses the concerns of the top 0.001% of the Dominion community that will fix the perception issues of the 99.99%?? What would you suggest we do to convince everyone that's quit on Dominion to come back? How do we message to players that Shaco isn't the best champ on Dominion? How do we address the complaint that a lot of players have of the lack of progression? The lack of game phases? The lack of differentiation from game to game? You focus on Blackfire Torch, but among the sea of real problems that Dominion has, that really should be barely a consideration. It's imba. OK, we nerf it next patch. Hell, I already did.

These aren't buzzwords. This is the reality of Dominion. We're in do-or-die mode. If you really love Dominion, then subscribe yourself to the program and dig down deep. The rug's going to be pulled out from beneath your feet over and over again, and you'll have to get used to that.
Dat 0.001%. lol Nome hitting below the belt. lol

Glad someone finally said it. The competitive Dominion community doesn't realize just how small they actually are(In addition to Dominion population being small already.)

I personally find it funny that people think adding ranked would change these things. It's like they don't understand the mindset of the average LoL player at all. Adding ranked wouldn't do anything but appease the 0.001% and cause the game to lose even more players.

Edit: Nome'd.