Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


@ RiotNome Blackfire Torch

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

11-14-2012

Vorpal Spikes and Toxic Shot are different.

Toxic Shot applies only to the main target of Teemo's attack.

Vorpal Spikes shoots an AoE damage effect--almost a skill shot--in a line relative to his attack vector.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EdgarAlanPWN88

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Exdeadman:
Vorpal Spikes and Toxic Shot are different.

Toxic Shot applies only to the main target of Teemo's attack.

Vorpal Spikes shoots an AoE damage effect--almost a skill shot--in a line relative to his attack vector.


I know, and I said that.

Quote:
EdgarAlanPWN88:
Now you have to press a button, but the effect is the same, Magic Damage effect upon an AutoAttack. Teemo is a Single Target Debuff, while Cho is a AoE Instant Damage.


They are very similar spells: PASSIVE Magic Damage effect upon AutoAttack. Teemo puts a single target debuff, while Cho has an AoE damage effect.

So, why does Vorpal Spikes apply Blackfire Torch, while Toxic Shot does not?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

11-14-2012

Quote:
EdgarAlanPWN88:
So, why does Vorpal Spikes apply Blackfire Torch, while Toxic Shot does not?

Because the magic damage is not directly attached to the attack. Yes, you have to attack someone to create the spikes, but the two are separate effects, and thus Vorpal Spikes is treated as a spell AoE because it is not directly attached to the attack. Toxic Shot, on the other hand, is directly applied the moment the attack lands, rather than firing a skill shot from Teemo's origin to his target.

This is what my post was saying in shorthand. Apparently, shorthand wasn't explicit enough.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EdgarAlanPWN88

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Exdeadman:
Because the magic damage is not directly attached to the attack. Yes, you have to attack someone to create the spikes, but the two are separate effects, and thus Vorpal Spikes is treated as a spell AoE because it is not directly attached to the attack. Toxic Shot, on the other hand, is directly applied the moment the attack lands, rather than firing a skill shot from Teemo's origin to his target.


So, would you characterize Vorpal Spikes like Graves' Collateral Damage? It creates an AoE immediately behind the Target that was initially hit?

On a similar note to the original comparison of Vopal Spikes/Toxic Shot, look at Xypherous' discussion of the upcoming item, Hurricane.

Quote:
Xypherous:
A good rule of thumb is: 'If I have more attack speed, do I get to apply this effect more often?' If the answer is no, it doesn't work with Hurricane.


**IF Cho was Ranged** Vorpal Spikes and Toxic Shot would probably both act the same in this situation, proccing the Hurricane effect. Both apply the effect more often based upon attack speed, just in reality one is melee and the other is ranged.

So, wouldnt this make Vorpal Spikes an On Hit effect?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EdgarAlanPWN88

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Exdeadman:
Yes, you have to attack someone to create the spikes, but the two are separate effects, and thus Vorpal Spikes is treated as a spell AoE because it is not directly attached to the attack.


Also, do you proc Vorpal Spikes when blinded? If it is not attached to the attack, does the attack have to land for Vorpal Spikes to proc?

In the same vein, does Toxic Shot proc when Teemo is blinded?

Hmm.... need to find someone on to test this with!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

11-15-2012

Quote:
EdgarAlanPWN88:
**IF Cho was Ranged** Vorpal Spikes and Toxic Shot would probably both act the same in this situation, proccing the Hurricane effect. Both apply the effect more often based upon attack speed, just in reality one is melee and the other is ranged.

So, wouldnt this make Vorpal Spikes an On Hit effect?

I'm pretty sure if Cho was ranged, Vorpal Spikes would be rendered inert first of all, but second, no. It's not an on-hit effect. It would only create one shot of spikes in a direct vector to his main target.
Quote:
EdgarAlanPWN88:
Also, do you proc Vorpal Spikes when blinded? If it is not attached to the attack, does the attack have to land for Vorpal Spikes to proc?

In the same vein, does Toxic Shot proc when Teemo is blinded?

Hmm.... need to find someone on to test this with!

Last time I knew, Vorpal Spikes was not affected by blinds.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Muspelheim SN

Member

11-15-2012

Having played Cho a lot in the past, I can say that Vorpal Spikes in an odd ability. It isn't even quite instant cast on autoattacks in my experience, which can cause some trouble when last hitting. Toxic Shot is applied instantly on autoattacks. You need to stop comparing Vorpal Spikes to Toxic Shot because Toxic Shot is the norm AFAIK and Vorpal Spikes is the odd ability.

The real test here would be with something like Orianna's passive. Does clockwork windup trigger Blackfire Torches's passive or not? I don't own her, so I can't test it. Based on how deadly venom and toxic shot don't, I would guess that clockwork windup won't either. This makes vorpal spikes a really odd ability that's coded as an ability that casts every time Cho autoattacks. Changing this would require recoding the ability as an on hit effect with an AOE like Tiamat or Nautalisk's W.

Actually, that's another thing that should be tested. Does Naut's W's DoT trigger Blackfire or Rylai's? I don't know. If it does, that would indicate that AOE effects are hard to code as on hit effects.

Edit: I tested Blackfire with Dianna. Her passive and E (moonfall) don't seem to apply Blackfire's passive, but her Q,W, and R do. It would seem that Cho'Gath's vorpal spikes is the odd one out, not the normal.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

11-15-2012

Muspelheim, Orianna's passive would not trigger Blackfire Torch.

Naut's W probably doesn't either.


12