Let's discuss SotO

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KillerJaedong

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Sword of the Occult.

It's a stack item, which means high risk / high reward.
Problem with SotO is that there is no high reward, and achieving this not so high reward is very hard because of the item and who uses it.

First off all, it offers all damage, no defense, which mostly tends to be used by one class: Ranged AD Carrys.
Ranged AD carrys, as opposed to for example AP carrys, tend to be more reliant on farm than leveling for killing potential. In other words, they need damage from items to get their kills even more than other roles.

The starting damage on SotO is 10, basically nothing, and is almost never worthwile to purchase at early stages of the game because it will decrease your killing potential by alot. After that, you get a maximum of 110 attack damage if you're fully stacked despite the difficulty, at which case you're only dealing 10 more damage than a bloodthirster which is much easier to stack. And still you won't have the important lifesteal.
It is cheaper, but if you're building a BT or IE you'll almost have a BF sword by the time you can afford your SotO.

So the problem with SotO is that while the price is relatively high (mejais is cheaper), the killing (thus stacking) potential is very low and the reward is very low. I consider SotO the biggest "noob trap item" in the game, which isn't and will never be useful.

As a comparison; for 100+ gold less you can buy Mejais Soulstealer, an Item that will give you 160 AP + 15%CDR when stacked which is alot higher than any other AP item and CDR is cruical for most mages, while not giving up half as much killingpotential since AP carrys scale alot more with levels than AD carrys do. Don't get me wrong, it's still very situational, but the item itself fullfills its purpose of high risk/high reward.


So the question is, Sword of the occult: Is there any incentive to buy it? And if not, with the coming changes to alot of items in S3, why is it still in the game or not changed?


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KillerJaedong

Senior Member

11-13-2012

bump


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Kengou

Junior Member

11-13-2012

No.


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KillerJaedong

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kengou View Post
No.
As in: there's no incentive to ever buy it?


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TheZombiePeanut

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Still, consider costs. Bloodthirster costs 3000, while occult costs, what, 1350? It gives more damage than bloodthirster at less than half of its cost. It does not give lifesteal, and is much harder to stack, true. The item is not altogether worth it unless you're sure there is pubstomping imminent, at which case its mostly just a superfluous buy.

A simple tweak would be to add, say, 2.5% lifesteal per stack. This puts it on par with bloodthirster, but is this the right tweak? Lifesteal adds survivability, which on a stacking item just doesn't seem to be a good idea.

So what about crit chance, or crit damage? These would encourage the damage gameplay of a snowball item like this, and would be consistent with adc builds. That adds a second dimension to the snowball item, which is different from the others.

The simplistic solution is just to increase damage gain. a bit more damage per stack would do it easily for making it a strong item if someone could pull it off.


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KillerJaedong

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Yes, costwise it is better assuming you know you'll be able stack it fast.

You could argue however that you'll still be able to stack a BT sooner than a SotO even though you can buy SotO faster and that a stacked SotO doesn't give you any edge over the other common AD item picks.

The simple comparison to an actually working stack item (Mejais which actually cost less than SotO in the first place) explains the problem with SotO.

I agree that some change need to be made.
I'd go with either raising the base damage, to maybe 25 or 30 which would lead to increasing the stackingpotential and increasing the full stack AD to 130, or raising the ammount of AD gained on stack, to maybe 7 which would equal to 150 AD on full stack.

Other alternatives would be to give it a better fullstack bonus, but SotO still wouldn't be useful if this bonus wasn't changed to a ridiculously powered bonus. Such as +40% attack speed and +20% movementspeed or something along those lines.


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Tyhan

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZombiePeanut View Post
A simple tweak would be to add, say, 2.5% lifesteal per stack.
Oh god 50% lifesteal maxed SotO...


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

11-14-2012

it's more gold efficient at high stacks, you essentially pay less-than-half price for the damage component of a BT.

That said, there's not much call for getting SotO, as unlike Mejais, you aren't essentially guaranteed 3-4 stacks per teamfight, and the gold-efficiency is much lower.


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KillerJaedong

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidgolem View Post
it's more gold efficient at high stacks, you essentially pay less-than-half price for the damage component of a BT.
Yes it is.
However I'd argue that it's not goldefficient enough, based on the relatively low maxstack AD and the difficulty to obtain and retain those stacks, to create any incentive to every buy the item. And that's the problem.

You either need to make the item better in some way, or decrease the price.


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KillerJaedong

Senior Member

11-14-2012

bump


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