Is this really punishable?

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Brohoof

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Calling all Riot employees!


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Blutarsky Blues

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbitlauncher View Post
Nothing wrong with being concerned.

I'm concerned about false imprisonment in the American judicial system too. Doesn't mean we should do away with the adversarial process though! =)
its comparing two very different systems of justice. Here are just a couple examples

1. having council in the judicial system allows for counter argument something the tribunal does not do.

2. The ability for council to have a say in the selection of jurors.

it is a poor comparison, I am not questioning the system of justice we live in I am however questioning a VIDEO GAME community that has problems (look up worst gaming communities on Google and see the first page of results) being able to report and judge other members with little to no accountability.


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Hobbitlauncher

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blutarsky Blues View Post
its comparing two very different systems of justice. Here are just a couple examples

1. having council in the judicial system allows for counter argument something the tribunal does not do.

2. The ability for council to have a say in the selection of jurors.

it is a poor comparison, I am not questioning the system of justice we live in I am however questioning a VIDEO GAME community that has problems (look up worst gaming communities on Google and see the first page of results) being able to report and judge other members with little to no accountability.

I'm trying to avoid comparing the two systems. Apples and oranges, as it were.

I am attacking the misconception that a couple outliers (cases like this one) mean that the system is flawed inherently. I was drawing parallels between false positives (like this case) and false positives in the wide world outside.

We both agree that a punishment levied against this Ashe player is deplorable. But it does not mean the system should be done away with. Rather, if possible it should be refined, or Riot should continue listening to us by at least picking out cases like this one and reversing the punishment.


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TeamWorkTom

Senior Member

11-13-2012

And this is why I created this thread. From what is given from the report it just looks like shes bad. We don't know what happened during lobby chat so we have no way of knowing if she is trolling or not.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2755025

But I made this thread in the hopes that Riot would understand were the basis of much raging starts, and how much of it can be curbed.


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ActionButlerGO

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Senior Member

11-13-2012

Bump for a Red.


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Blutarsky Blues

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbitlauncher View Post
I'm trying to avoid comparing the two systems. Apples and oranges, as it were.

I am attacking the misconception that a couple outliers (cases like this one) mean that the system is flawed inherently. I was drawing parallels between false positives (like this case) and false positives in the wide world outside.

We both agree that a punishment levied against this Ashe player is deplorable. But it does not mean the system should be done away with. Rather, if possible it should be refined, or Riot should continue listening to us by at least picking out cases like this one and reversing the punishment.
With this I agree. I believe a system is needed but the one in place puts to much worry/stress on the good people in the community. What can be changed? The ability to report is to much power for many of the people who play the game yet it is needed to weed out the true toxic players. The tribunal gives the toxic players the power of voting, but yet it is another layer that is needed do to the amount of cases brought forward. From what I have read riot support only answers in auto responses to people who try to protest their bans. This could be changed and cases brought to riot through support could receive better attention as opposed to auto reply's. The punishments handed out bring lots of worry to the community as they can result in time and money lost. This is another possible aspect that could be changed (toxic player island). I do not know the answers to the changes needed this is all speculation, but the current system is hurting the good honest people playing this game and something should change.


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Vias

Junior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Sniper View Post
If you notice in the first game she has flash which requires at least lvl 12 i believe to get it. There for we know she is at least lvl 12 so the 1-5 thing is a smurt and she might actually be trolling but her getting ap leads me to believe she is a noob and not feeding.
Only see a few without flash. I understand if you see someone smurf and steamroll as AP Ashe then try it... but three times? X.x

Trolls trolling trolls? Xin in game 3
"Xin Zhao [All] [00:41:42] umadfag
Xin Zhao [All] [00:44:42] gg******s"
And Annie
"Annie [00:39:43] REPORT YOUR MOM AMUMU
Annie [00:39:45] FCK U
Annie [00:39:57] DONT HAVE IMPORTANCE FOR ME
Annie [00:40:00] FCK U"

Game 2 Fiddle about getting reported. "Fiddlesticks [All] [00:41:37] do it ******, hope you get shot in the face"

Those are the reportable things >.>


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Kilivin777

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Tribunal sucks. You can't be judged by peers who have credibility to their name.

Bump for fixing tribunal. It's a horrible system.


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Hobbitlauncher

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blutarsky Blues View Post
With this I agree. I believe a system is needed but the one in place puts to much worry/stress on the good people in the community. What can be changed? The ability to report is to much power for many of the people who play the game yet it is needed to weed out the true toxic players. The tribunal gives the toxic players the power of voting, but yet it is another layer that is needed do to the amount of cases brought forward. From what I have read riot support only answers in auto responses to people who try to protest their bans. This could be changed and cases brought to riot through support could receive better attention as opposed to auto reply's. The punishments handed out bring lots of worry to the community as they can result in time and money lost. This is another possible aspect that could be changed (toxic player island). I do not know the answers to the changes needed this is all speculation, but the current system is hurting the good honest people playing this game and something should change.

Remember that (sorry, no specific numbers, but I have no reason to disbelieve what Lyte has said) the system devalues the vote-weight of tribunal voters who spam punish and it devalues the report-weight of constant reporters. There are systems under the hood that help alleviate this stress. I, for one, have never worried once about getting banned. Granted a single case study means little in the overarcing scheme of things.

As data is collected, these algorithms can be further refined and allow for even more specificity and control over toxic players both at the reporting step, and way at the end at the adjudication step.

Going back to our very very rough analogy with the Crim. Justice system:

I don't fear being put in jail because I have done nothing wrong, and systems have been refined to such a point that it is unlikely I would be unjustly punished. A century or two ago, that was not true. Many revisions and refinements of the system went into place (up to and including appeals AFTER punishment) to afford me an even further strengthened sense of self-security. The Tribunal is like the justice system shortly after its inception. Give it time, and remain vigilant to highlight problematic cases like this one! We cannot do much more than that.

Also: consider this yet another bump for red response


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Hobbitlauncher

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilivin777 View Post
Tribunal sucks. You can't be judged by peers who have credibility to their name.

Bump for fixing tribunal. It's a horrible system.

Killvin, your data please? I will posit that you yourself have been punished to reach such a polarized state. If this is true, let's review you as a case study. Your report card?

If you have not and instead are polarized due to cases like the one from the OP... please show us an aggregate score/tally of the ratio of those false positives are to actual necessitated punishments.

Any other argument (in your case, one backed only with passion and no substance) are invalid.