Ignite most certainly cannot replace Surge's unique role!!!

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TealNinje

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuther View Post
Isn't there not the likely possibility the enemy team will just slow you with Randuin's, or otherwise CC you, or have armour to not die in 1.5 seconds?

I'm mean like, you're describing a pentakill happening somewhere close to within 1.5 seconds, which happens somewhere in hundreds of a percentage of all games if I recall.
Cleanse + 60% splash damage = if I can kill the toughest enemy, the rest are probably all already dead.


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Surge provides AP and attack speed. There are very few champions who make full use of what is is ultimately a minor boost to sustained damage.

As opposed to what, 430(?) true damage over 5 seconds (Dats about 84 dps btw, which is probably only slightly less than what you gain from surge), AND A HEAL REDUCTION (This is the big part - It shuts down Carry life steal, Champions who have heavy self healing, or any attempt to aid a focus target if you're, say, Soraka.)

It is used just as much for the PREVENTION of aid as much as it is for the securing of a kill.

With that new cleanse/heal item, though, Ignite should see less frequent play as a quick-fingered support can render at least one of them null and void.


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A Pillòw

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Step 1) pick Surge
Step 2) pick Karthus
Step 3) Activate Surge
Step 4) Press RRRRRRRRRRRRR
- Ignite doesn't work to replace this.


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TealNinje

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea De Penserhir View Post
(Dats about 84 dps btw, which is probably only slightly less than what you gain from surge)
300 AD, 40% crit, .658 or something attack speed. 110 damage per second. In the case of Malphite, that's actually 154 damage per second, and it splashes. For each target after the first, an additional 92 damage per second from Surge.


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Fracture Eon

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Yes. yes, in fact, it can. And does. Because there is no champion out there who will deal more than 510 TRUE DAMAGE (that is indeed in all caps because that's how ****ing huge Ignite is) with the AP that Surge provided. Nobody has high enough ratios or scales that well with attack speed to beat that much TRUE DAMAGE over 5 seconds.

The math has been done, and Surge is worthless. There is no replacement for TRUE DAMAGE. Not magic damage that gets cut in half by the enemy's magic resist, TRUE DAMAGE.

Enemy picked Cleanse? Who cares. He already used it at the start of the fight to break out of a bunch of crowd control. That's what everyone uses Cleanse for.


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Zergleb

Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fracture Eon View Post
Yes. yes, in fact, it can. And does. Because there is no champion out there who will deal more than 510 TRUE DAMAGE (that is indeed in all caps because that's how ****ing huge Ignite is) with the AP that Surge provided. Nobody has high enough ratios or scales that well with attack speed to beat that much TRUE DAMAGE over 5 seconds.

The math has been done, and Surge is worthless. There is no replacement for TRUE DAMAGE. Not magic damage that gets cut in half by the enemy's magic resist, TRUE DAMAGE.

Enemy picked Cleanse? Who cares. He already used it at the start of the fight to break out of a bunch of crowd control. That's what everyone uses Cleanse for.
I've mentioned this a million times, the balance of a spell is not the point of discussion, instead the point of discussion is the role it plays in the game, balance can be changed, while removing gameplay elements changes the game and in my argument for the worse.

Also as for the balance issue, some heroes get 300 damage with close to 100% crit(Doubling the damage), if you have surge you can stack damage instead of attack speed, you are telling me that even when you fight in a 12 second team fight that an ad carry can't get 2 more hits off with 40% increease in attack speed?(That's including your own number where you say resist will cut your damage in half, but then afterword accounting for high critical strike) I disagree in 12 seconds if it doesn't get you 6 more hits in a team fight you are doing something terribly wrong. And it should only take you two hits to equal the TRUE DAMAGE!!!!!!! of ignite. How about doing your own math and pointing to equations rather than saying people have already done the math!(That's not even accounting for Hybrid heroes like kayle who would come out much better math wise)


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DPCyric

Junior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbital Nuke View Post
Surge would have been heavily used with a shorter cooldown.
Exactly, I used it every once in awhile if I had a good team who would help me at blue buff. Jungling with Surge and Smite on some champs was amazing for counter jungling (could take their red and get out of their jungle before they know it) with good teamwork. A shorter cooldown would just make jungling a lot faster for the champs it synergizes with.


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Nykidemus

Senior Member

11-20-2012

What is surge? O_o


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pro crastinat0r

Senior Member

11-22-2012

The real problem with surge was it was too easy to bait/kite.


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Largescuba

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Senior Member

11-25-2012

I remember reading in a post that they were thinking about making it where you can cast Surge on an ally so both of you get the effects (at a reduced effect). I guess they didn't like how it worked out. Would have been cool on Taric, ult and then surge your carry.