Ignite most certainly cannot replace Surge's unique role!!!

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Vuther

Senior Member

11-13-2012

I think the problem was the Surge was basically worse than Ignite despite different use. A guy's got some math here - the actual benefits of Surge completely maximized over Ignite is incredibly minimal for its 12 second duration.


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Zergleb

Member

11-13-2012

The major difference between my review and his review(and why mine is a million times more relevant) is I discuss it's role in the gameplay while he discusses balance. If he feels there is a balance problem that can be fixed with some number twiddling. But the role it plays in games and the fun that creates for the end user should be the focus of game design as opposed to balance.


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TealNinje

Senior Member

11-13-2012

I love Surge.

It makes Assassincarry Malphite a much earlier thing.

Why would they remove it? >_> Now, instead of being a priority threat at 12 minutes, I have to wait until 17 minutes?


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Frostfire20

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Less than five champions in the game pick up Surge on a regular basis. It doesn't matter how relevant to gameplay you think it is. The fact is that Ignite deals true damage, and it's targetable. So drop it on someone who's at low health to finish them off.

Surge just isn't used. More than half the total team takes Ignite because every champion can use it more effectively than Surge.

QQ'ing about Surge's benefits while ignoring the obvious problem won't help. Nobody uses Surge (or Promote for that matter), so they're getting rid of it. It's redundant. And who needs dead code?

I'm not saying NOBODY uses it, just that so few actually do that it's irrelevant. Besides, Ignite is waaaay better in a teamfight.


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TealNinje

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostfire20 View Post
Less than five champions in the game pick up Surge on a regular basis. It doesn't matter how relevant to gameplay you think it is. The fact is that Ignite deals true damage, and it's targetable. So drop it on someone who's at low health to finish them off.

Surge just isn't used. More than half the total team takes Ignite because every champion can use it more effectively than Surge.

QQ'ing about Surge's benefits while ignoring the obvious problem won't help. Nobody uses Surge (or Promote for that matter), so they're getting rid of it. It's redundant. And who needs dead code?

I'm not saying NOBODY uses it, just that so few actually do that it's irrelevant. Besides, Ignite is waaaay better in a teamfight.
I almost never use Ignite. Sure, it can pick up kills when the enemy would escape with 15 health, but on the other hand, I can play better and that won't happen anymore after that. On the other hand, through using Surge, I can pull off more tactical stunts that would be impossible without it and win fights that I should have lost, even if I had had Exhaust AND Ignite.

Removing something just because it isn't used NOW isn't really sound; they're removing a few strategic choices and making everything carbon copy. It's getting to the point where it isn't what you do, why you do it, or even how you do it, but only how well you do it.


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Rasmenar

Senior Member

11-15-2012

OP suggested that ANYONE should jungle without smite. That's when I stopped reading.


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Orbital Nuke

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Recruiter

11-15-2012

Surge would have been heavily used with a shorter cooldown.


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Vuther

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TealNinje View Post
On the other hand, through using Surge, I can pull off more tactical stunts that would be impossible without it and win fights that I should have lost, even if I had had Exhaust AND Ignite.
This strikes me as a rather unlikely statement.


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TealNinje

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuther View Post
This strikes me as a rather unlikely statement.
Malphite with Ghostblade, enemy team all packed into a tight circle (like maybe focusing down his ranged carry), ults into the middle of them and activates both Surge and Ghostblade, and kills the entire enemy team on his own.

"Unlikely"? Perhaps. Unlikely that I'll be permitted to actually play Malphite properly, given the ridiculous misconception that so many people hold? Yes. Unlikely that, given the freedom to, I would be able to perform the scenario? Absolutely not! Even if the only target available is the enemy carry, and even if they are 20/2 and I am 5/3, I would still be able to take them out of the fight reliably every time, so long as I had Surge available. Ignite doesn't provide me nearly the burst damage I need to kill them, and as soon as the stun wears off they'd lifesteal through the damage AND the healing debuff, nevermind that if they have QSS or Cleanse that it wouldn't do anything significant anyway, whereas there's no such counterplay to Surge.


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Vuther

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TealNinje View Post
Malphite with Ghostblade, enemy team all packed into a tight circle (like maybe focusing down his ranged carry), ults into the middle of them and activates both Surge and Ghostblade, and kills the entire enemy team on his own.

"Unlikely"? Perhaps. Unlikely that I'll be permitted to actually play Malphite properly, given the ridiculous misconception that so many people hold? Yes. Unlikely that, given the freedom to, I would be able to perform the scenario? Absolutely not! Even if the only target available is the enemy carry, and even if they are 20/2 and I am 5/3, I would still be able to take them out of the fight reliably every time, so long as I had Surge available. Ignite doesn't provide me nearly the burst damage I need to kill them, and as soon as the stun wears off they'd lifesteal through the damage AND the healing debuff, nevermind that if they have QSS or Cleanse that it wouldn't do anything significant anyway, whereas there's no such counterplay to Surge.
Isn't there not the likely possibility the enemy team will just slow you with Randuin's, or otherwise CC you, or have armour to not die in 1.5 seconds?

I'm mean like, you're describing a pentakill happening somewhere close to within 1.5 seconds, which happens somewhere in hundreds of a percentage of all games if I recall.