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Kills need to stop giving experience and gold

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Ryzol Ryzo Ryz R

Senior Member

11-24-2012

Unlike SR, Dominion doesn't need to snowball because the game is timer based. I see no reasons why kills should give gold or xp.


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AlphaFerric

Senior Member

11-24-2012

This is probably the most interesting idea I've seen on these forums (no offense other forum posters ) The part I don't like about it is how much it would inspire people to make bad plays in not very clutch scenarios. The one main one I can think of is defending a tower 3v1 when you're team can't get to you in time and you don't have garrison. In that case you can buy time for free with the only cost being a death timer instead of giving the enemy team some amount of gold. I'm sure there are other scenarios where you hit that fine of line of possibly sacrificing yourself for a good or bad cause, and this would always make it a worthwhile venture unless your teams spawn timers are nearly up.

I also don't like how that would play into the dynamic at bot. If gold gain was equivalent you could know exactly when someone needed to back and it would make for too predictable of a matchup across the board and for gank timings because you would know exactly how much gold your opponent had/what they are going back to buy. Reducing misinformation is something that would damage the mode imo.

The same applies to top. If you know exactly when Leona is going to hit 6 you can spread out. This can make for smart team play, but I feel like everyone would just scatter once they all hit 6 or you would get one massive cluster**** of an engage.

I'm just playing around with opposing ideas, but I like where you're going with it.


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BigBananaBoat

Senior Member

11-24-2012

Snowballing is pretty much absent in Dom due to the passive gold/exp gain. Games get snowballed when your entire team gets stomped, and thats usually due to team comp or people going in one at a time to try and cap a tower.


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A Slime Appears

Senior Member

11-24-2012

Quote:
Redenbacher:
Many champions are still effective at preventing caps at low health. For example: Kog'Maw, Corki, Ezreal, Kha'Zix, Jayce... etc.

Captures should not give gold, because that puts incentive on bad play (losing and re-capturing points for more gold).


Then it also puts an incentive on making good plays involving towers too, your point?


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

11-24-2012

Quote:
A Slime Appears:
Then it also puts an incentive on making good plays involving towers too, your point?


You're already rewarded for capturing the point by taking points from the enemy team, and ultimately victory. Why do you need more reward than that?


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A Slime Appears

Senior Member

11-24-2012

Quote:
Redenbacher:
You're already rewarded for capturing the point by taking points from the enemy team, and ultimately victory. Why do you need more reward than that?


Why shouldn't you be rewarded with gold for making plays, be it kills or towers? You are rewarded for your accomplishments with gold to buy items with. That creates an incentive for people to do things that help your team win.You say you haven't seen a compelling reason to keep it, but I haven't seen one for removing it. The gold earned is played up like it's game changing, and it isn't. If you want to deal with snowballing, deal with respawn timers.

This thread makes it sound like a much bigger deal than it is.


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Itstwoftlong

Senior Member

11-25-2012

If you actually manage to somehow snowball in Dominion from kills, then you deserve it. The other team must be horrendous and you ought to end the game as quickly as possible.


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DamnPandaHands

Senior Member

11-25-2012

Late game compositions would be too powerful


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ZenithZephyr

Senior Member

11-25-2012

Play Karthus. Run face first into tower over and over.


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GET REKT FGT

Senior Member

11-25-2012

Quote:
Redenbacher:
I've yet to see a convincing argument in this thread as to why kills should provide gold and XP.

I think it's simply a mechanic that we're used to in this genre, and the thought of removing something so familiar is scary.

In reality, I don't feel it serves much purpose. I think the XP and gold for champion kills is a small percentage of what is gained through ambient earnings. Removal of these two rewards would only serve to slightly slow down the game.


A convincing argument: Certain champs have an amazing early game and fall off late game drastically, and others have a crappy early game and a stellar late game.

If everybody got the same amount of XP and gold, builds would be pigeonholed into having only the most expensive or best items (and in many cases these two categories aren't mutually exclusive, i.e. Triforce on Jayce), which would:


1.) wreck havoc on champ selection variety more than what we see now (because who would ever play a champ that didn't have or could not maintain a decent position throughout the game, let alone late game champs? All you'd ever see is Jax, Jayce, Kassadin, Lulu, Khazix teams)

2.) Would turn item selection builds into cookie-cutter builds even more than what they are now. People would attempt to save up for an item, die far too often to hold a point, and in some cases cost their team the game simply for the sake of saving for building power, meanwhile the other team could very well be taking them over with a simple extremely strong team that doesn't necessarily need items or even a proper mastery/rune build to dominate (see point 1). There would be no need for new items, since inferior items would never get used, no one would attempt *gimmicky* or niche builds in terms of counter building against an enemy or what-have-you, and the game would grow extremely stale due to lack of variety, which then reinforces point 1.

3.) Point 2 and 1 would aid in killing the small community Dominion already is. If you were to simply get rid of the differences in ability to farm/kill (because you would), why not have everybody play the same "grey blob" champion, who all has the same form of CC, who has some sustain and a heal while you're at it? Or think of it this way: You play Draft, and you ban all the cheesecake tier and Tier 1 champs. Guess who then becomes the "OP" champs at the top of the list that everybody will play to make sure they keep an advantage...

EDIT: Forgot to add, should a team play Draft, ban all the overpowered champs but then get the champs next in line for "OP"ness, that means that the other team would always be set up to lose at champ select, no matter what (unless the team with said strong champs troll the game or are extremely unskilled). Knowing that for a full build to be effectively decent with Soraka would cost more than what you'd need to be decent with a champ like Khazix, why would anyone ever play Soraka?


Long story short, the only argument needed to defeat this is that it would simply kill variety, which would promote staleness, which would in turn slowly but surely kill Dominion. And I'm pretty sure nobody here wants to kill off Dominion, and DEFINITELY don't want to play with the same OP champs. Even games such as Counter Strike, which offer no substantial variety in terms of the entity the player has, offers enough variety for people to learn to play with different guns, in different maps, and in different scenarios.

Removing XP and Gold from kills would simply make this into a Third-Person MMO Shooter, where everybody chooses the tankiest champs and everybody walks around with the most powerful weapons in the game. And ask yourself, how long would a game like this keep you entertained?? How could you convince others to play this type of game?