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FeralPony and Roku Discuss Preseason Changes

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MedievalMan

Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
WhenRedFades:
This would make champs with already low mana cost overpowered, especially if they build CDR, for example Karthus and Evelyn would just spam Q's till their fingers break off and use the stubs to continue winning. Then for the champs with larger mana cost to apply a nerf to help them not just destroy everything, are now buffed or negate the nerf entirely. Letting them have a unfair advantage. Imagine darius ult costing 15% less (which is 85 per dunk which might ensure after a full combo of all his abilites, 3, to 4 dunks)


If people want to spam like hell they just build a tear, I don't see how his idea is more OP.


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Sephrinx

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Empty promises. There is always going to be cookie cutter min/max specs.


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Guy1234567

Junior Member

11-12-2012

pls tet heal stay for everyone . i cant go tanky top without it


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smokey5430

Senior Member

11-12-2012

@Feralpony, are the summoner spell masteries being removed?
With the current system I feel punished for taking summoner spells that aren't in the trees my masteries are for.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

11-12-2012

How exactly will Dominion summoner spells change?

I ask because Dominion's summoner spell problems are a fairly different kettle of dragonshark than SR's summoner spell problems.

First of all, while at low [hidden] elo play Dominion is commonly seen as a murderfest that does not require much thought, Ghost, Flash, Ignite, and Exhaust are the main summoners, in part because they let you either get to teamfights faster or make you better in those teamfights. You will occasionally see Garrison, Promote, or Heal, but rarely much else.

However, the above is HIGHLY inefficient play, which medium-level Dominion begins to express and high-level, Dominate Dominion tournament-level play embraces.

The most common aspect of high-level play on Dominion is, and I am not a Zileas smurf, mastery-specced Revive. If you don't believe me, Sauron, the Dominion equivalent of Sam and Elementz has a very good guide to Dominion right here (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2244698). He explains better than I can, so here's the text of what he has to say on the matter:

Quote:
Sauron:
Everybody always wants to ask me why Revive is so important in high Elo. For a bot laner, the reason is simple: you can get right back to your capture point before the enemy can neutralize it, even if you died to a gank.

For a top laner, Revive is more of a list of reasons:

-Very strong in the windmill fight.
-Stronger than Ghost.
-Allows you to distract enemies in a lost team fight by running away from your team (into the enemy's side of the jungle), which can result in a point being successfully held.
-Allows you to recover from a bad mistake such as getting bushwhacked.
-No other summoner spell is going to let you get out of most ganks anyways, especially vs the meta picks.
-Allows you to maintain a winning game in the face of adjusted respawn timers (in favor of the enemy team).

Overall, the pros of Revive vastly outweigh its single con: long cooldown. Specced Revive is absolutely necessary to have, so be prepared to allocate something to the defensive tree.


In fact, here's the list of the other summoners according to that guide:

Quote:
the aforementioned burning eye:
Claivoyance:
Clairvoyance is occasionally taken on a support champion in lieu of Garrison. It is very useful when team members traverse the jungle, and occasionally allows you to see if the enemy is deciding to rush a different point. It will see hardly any use when it comes to fights near capture points, but a stalemate bottom laner could also take CV if his map awareness is great enough to follow exactly what his team is doing.

Clarity:
Not necessary. The passive mana regen on Dominion is simply too high.

Cleanse:
Cleanse removes a lot of stuff now, though many will argue that simply the damage you take from CC will often not make it worth it. Very useful on ranged carries and melee DPS, and can throw a potential curveball if taken on a bottom laner.

Exhaust:
The best "all-around" offensive spell, it reduces damage from autoattacks much more than abilities. One of the reasons why AD casters often supercede autoattackers. Exhaust will almost always be used for the damage reduction in Dominion, and not for chasing. Be sure to prematurely cast this against suppressors such as WW or Malz, if you are going to use it at all against them.

Flash:
Due to the layout of Dominion, flashing over walls isn't going to completely save you like it can in SR. It has its uses on champions that require certain positioning, and can help squishy champions and initiators quite a bit, but honestly I'd take something else over it unless it's a certain champion like Alistar.

Garrison:
Extremely useful spell -- you can defend a point from a huge minion wave, you can dive an enemy champion, you can disrupt a neutralize from a long distance away... very useful to have around 2 Garrisons on your team.

Ghost:
When Dominion was first released, everyone thought Ghost was absolutely necessary. Turns out, it really isn't. You can use it to chase/escape, or you can use it the moment your target gets out of range in a team fight. People underestimate the ability to ignore collision. It will usually lose some of its MS when combined with a speed shrine, due to soft caps.

Heal:
Actually quite useful in Dominion -- very powerful early on and helps team fights quite a bit.

Ignite:
Useful because of its short cooldown. Ignite helps a lot against popular picks such as Soraka or Derpwick. (minor outdated section against old FotMs) Its damage is nothing to sneeze at, and it can help a lot against defense stacking targets. You'll want at least one on the team in blind pick.

Promote:
To be completely honest, if you want pushing or counterpushing power, just get Garrison. After a lot of testing, I believe anything Promote can do, Garrison can do better.

Revive:
Everybody always wants to ask me why Revive is so important in high Elo. For a bot laner, the reason is simple: you can get right back to your capture point before the enemy can neutralize it, even if you died to a gank.

For a top laner, Revive is more of a list of reasons:

-Very strong in the windmill fight.
-Stronger than Ghost.
-Allows you to distract enemies in a lost team fight by running away from your team (into the enemy's side of the jungle), which can result in a point being successfully held.
-Allows you to recover from a bad mistake such as getting bushwhacked.
-No other summoner spell is going to let you get out of most ganks anyways, especially vs the meta picks.
-Allows you to maintain a winning game in the face of adjusted respawn timers (in favor of the enemy team).

Overall, the pros of Revive vastly outweigh its single con: long cooldown. Specced Revive is absolutely necessary to have, so be prepared to allocate something to the defensive tree.

Smite:
The only time this sees use is when you know for sure the enemy bot laner will be Heimer or AD Malz, and even then it's a questionable pick.

Surge:
If your champion scales on AS and AP, by all means, run this over a different offensive spell.


While I think it's obvious that Smite should see removal (as it's tailor-made for junglers, and PG sets a precedent by not having it), there are several key things to note (some of which are admittedly not in the guide; however keep in mind that the guide itself is still mostly valid):

1. Revive is practically mandatory at high-level play, and due to a lack of effective communication on the matter/Revive's "noob trap" status on SR/TT, people do not realize this.
2. Exhaust and Garrison are the other two major spells at high-level play.
3. Ignite, Flash, Cleanse, Heal, and Ghost are actually quite situational picks that are typically outweighed by the top three. This goes double for Flash and Ghost.
4. Clairvoyance is a "premade stategic" summoner that is often outweighed by the other high-level picks. Promote is outclassed by Garrison but might work on a "sheer push" comp.
5. Smite and Clarity are troll summoners. Clarity might be a bit more useful to newbies now that the mana regen aura is getting nerfed, but Smite should be removed as soon as it can be done.
6. Surge is Surge. Good (but not necessarily ideal) on a few champs, overtly outclassed on others, bad on the rest.

This is very different than SR. While I enjoy the strategy of Revive, I also admit that it forces out other summoner spells that also grant interesting gameplay.

My main question, therefore, is this (feel free to bring in RiotNome to help answer this): How does Riot plan to work on Dominion summoner spell variety, given how different Dominion's summoner spell problems at optimal play are?

Thank you for reading the post. If you didn't, here's the
tl;dr:

Dominion has way different summoner spell problems than SR and I am curious as to how you guys are working when it comes to Dominion summoner spells.


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Xigbar

Senior Member

11-12-2012

What about Ghost? I know it's a good escape summoner spell, but it seems to fall off late game. By the time team fights are frequent, it almost seems like it just gets snuffed out. Maybe change it to work like reverie, and lower the duration?


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Fell Arms

Junior Member

11-12-2012

If barrier's point is to negate high burst in 2 seconds, could there be an armor/magic res addition to the summoner spell? Or could one of the masteries include this addition? Like how a mastery point in offense can cause exhaust to reduce the enemy's armor/magic resistance by 10. It would be reasonable to add 10 armor or magic resistance, or perhaps even 15, for two seconds... right?

Edit: Is it also possible to remove revive from regular summoner's rift? I don't feel it fits in well with this game mode, and it seems that the only players that ever take it beyond level 15 are trolling or otherwise completely alien to the meta. It's more of a crystal scar summoner.


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doubleAarmas

Junior Member

11-12-2012

please try to help us supports with the gold flow with utility masteries if u can, gets hard to get a full build for most games


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MarkTehKing

Senior Member

11-12-2012

With the new items and masteries, will low-mobility burst casters (Brand, veigar, anivia, karthus, malzahar, swain to name a few) be able to compete with in the high-mobility meta?


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NĂ©phistalia

Senior Member

11-12-2012

OMG :'( SURGE!! The only reason people didn't pick it is because they are blind and focus to much on ignite... I used to play kog surge+flash... it was really powerful on him! Such as on many other champion