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Zeric, the Observer

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The5lacker

Senior Member

11-25-2012

Quote:
SephirothWontDie:
i could deal with this, but for the ult, i would remove the true sight while its on cooldown and give it back when its ready to cast. i mean, it would be kinda ridiculous to have a perma-oracles built in. i do realize that this is mean to counter stealthies, but even then, every counter has a flaw in their design to specifically give the champions they counter a small window of opportunity to try something. even evelynn's stealth, which is meant to counter anyone, gives people a warning by revealing her if she gets to close. twitch's stealth doesnt do that cuz its a smaller, less extreme stealth, but yoyu get my point.

All righty then, lets list the champions with stealth, how their stealth works, and why it's okay for Zeric to counter them:

Wards - While not champions in and of themselves, Wards are stealthed, and Zeric, upon hitting level 6, would theoretically be able to go "Ward hunting" while jungling. That would lead to a potentially terrifying time for the enemy, as there wouldn't be any concrete way to prevent ganks, short of keen observation skills and good communication. But, at the same time, the ability to remove wards already exists in the form of Vision Wards, or, "Counter Wards" as I call them. When placed in a spot where the enemy has already placed a ward (Say, a bush), a Vision Ward can be used to negate the enemy's advantage. All Zeric would really do is cut out the middleman, but without the ability to be multiple places at once, meaning it doesn't completely invalidated Vision or Sight wards for his own team.

Teemo's Mushrooms - Again, not exactly a champion, but they're another thing I had in mind while designing Zerick. A Teemo who's doing well basically FORCES the enemy team to invest in Oracle's Elixir, which can get costly if your team keeps losing those team fights. Having someone with it built in to act as a minesweeper would allow the team as a whole to potentially regain ground and progress in their builds, rather than be fearful of every bush on punishment of death.

Akali - Akali's stealth is limited to her Twilight Shroud, and even with Zerick able to see through it, she gains bonus armor and magic resist while in it, which means he only counters a chunk of it.

Evelynn - Evelynn is automatically revealed if within 700 units of an enemy champion, so all Zerick does is increase that range, meaning she can't quite as easily get the drop on him. At the same time, Eve does best hunting down people who are alone, so she could just avoid Zerick and take out his laning teammates with ease.

Kha'Zix - His stealth lasts for barely a second and doesn't exactly do much by itself.. It's mostly used for repositioning or to reset his passive, which amusingly Zerick can't stop, even though he's within Vision range.

LeBlanc - Again, her stealth lasts for barely a second and serves to offer a distraction as she makes an illusionary clone of herself. As far as I know, True Sight can't see through clones, so Zerick does next to nothing against her.

Rengar - Stealths him for five second and gives him the ability to see through stealth. Rengar has the ultimate anti-stealth, capable of getting the drop on enemies who would get the drop on him, and giving him all sorts of potentially scary things to do. But at the same time, in addition to the true sight, it gives him movement speed and stealth. It's meant to ambush, while Zerick is meant for counter-ambush. Zerick's gives him neither stealth nor movement speed, so having his be permanent isn't overly unbalancing.

Shaco - Has a blink and a stealth that lasts for three and a half seconds. *Shudders* His stealth is so strong, any sort of anti-stealth measure is reasonable against him. No contest.

Talon - Has a steath that sends blades flying when it ends, and gives him increased movement speed. As Zerick doesn't deal with either of those, and Talon's main strength is in his burst damage, all Zerick would do would be give his time a very poor chance at killing him before he gets his combo off. If he was scary enough to actually kill anything with his combo, he's too scary to be killed before it can hit.

Teemo - Teemo's stealth only lasts while he's standing still so, again, it's minesweeper time.

Twitch - Movement speed buff, stealth, and attack speed buff when it ends. Ambush is as ambush does. Again, exactly what Zerick is built to counter.

Vayne - While Final Hour is active, Tumble stealths her for 1 second, again, for repositioning like Kha'zix. It's mostly just for the confusion factor and, in and of itself, isn't the reason Vayne is scary.

Wukong - Like LeBlanc, just to make a decoy. Unlike Leblanc, drops it once every ten seconds and stealths while his immobile decoy is active. Zerick would counter him very hard.

With a grand total of 11 champions who use stealth, Zerick only really hard counters maybe half of them. The odds of him countering much other than Wards is fairly low if you ask me.


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The5lacker

Senior Member

11-25-2012

Bumpin'


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The5lacker

Senior Member

11-29-2012

Bumpin'


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Poondah

Junior Member

11-29-2012

Quote:
The5lacker:
All righty then, lets list the champions with stealth, how their stealth works, and why it's okay for Zeric to counter them:

Wards - While not champions in and of themselves, Wards are stealthed, and Zeric, upon hitting level 6, would theoretically be able to go "Ward hunting" while jungling. That would lead to a potentially terrifying time for the enemy, as there wouldn't be any concrete way to prevent ganks, short of keen observation skills and good communication. But, at the same time, the ability to remove wards already exists in the form of Vision Wards, or, "Counter Wards" as I call them. When placed in a spot where the enemy has already placed a ward (Say, a bush), a Vision Ward can be used to negate the enemy's advantage. All Zeric would really do is cut out the middleman, but without the ability to be multiple places at once, meaning it doesn't completely invalidated Vision or Sight wards for his own team.

Teemo's Mushrooms - Again, not exactly a champion, but they're another thing I had in mind while designing Zerick. A Teemo who's doing well basically FORCES the enemy team to invest in Oracle's Elixir, which can get costly if your team keeps losing those team fights. Having someone with it built in to act as a minesweeper would allow the team as a whole to potentially regain ground and progress in their builds, rather than be fearful of every bush on punishment of death.

Akali - Akali's stealth is limited to her Twilight Shroud, and even with Zerick able to see through it, she gains bonus armor and magic resist while in it, which means he only counters a chunk of it.

Evelynn - Evelynn is automatically revealed if within 700 units of an enemy champion, so all Zerick does is increase that range, meaning she can't quite as easily get the drop on him. At the same time, Eve does best hunting down people who are alone, so she could just avoid Zerick and take out his laning teammates with ease.

Kha'Zix - His stealth lasts for barely a second and doesn't exactly do much by itself.. It's mostly used for repositioning or to reset his passive, which amusingly Zerick can't stop, even though he's within Vision range.

LeBlanc - Again, her stealth lasts for barely a second and serves to offer a distraction as she makes an illusionary clone of herself. As far as I know, True Sight can't see through clones, so Zerick does next to nothing against her.

Rengar - Stealths him for five second and gives him the ability to see through stealth. Rengar has the ultimate anti-stealth, capable of getting the drop on enemies who would get the drop on him, and giving him all sorts of potentially scary things to do. But at the same time, in addition to the true sight, it gives him movement speed and stealth. It's meant to ambush, while Zerick is meant for counter-ambush. Zerick's gives him neither stealth nor movement speed, so having his be permanent isn't overly unbalancing.

Shaco - Has a blink and a stealth that lasts for three and a half seconds. *Shudders* His stealth is so strong, any sort of anti-stealth measure is reasonable against him. No contest.

Talon - Has a steath that sends blades flying when it ends, and gives him increased movement speed. As Zerick doesn't deal with either of those, and Talon's main strength is in his burst damage, all Zerick would do would be give his time a very poor chance at killing him before he gets his combo off. If he was scary enough to actually kill anything with his combo, he's too scary to be killed before it can hit.

Teemo - Teemo's stealth only lasts while he's standing still so, again, it's minesweeper time.

Twitch - Movement speed buff, stealth, and attack speed buff when it ends. Ambush is as ambush does. Again, exactly what Zerick is built to counter.

Vayne - While Final Hour is active, Tumble stealths her for 1 second, again, for repositioning like Kha'zix. It's mostly just for the confusion factor and, in and of itself, isn't the reason Vayne is scary.

Wukong - Like LeBlanc, just to make a decoy. Unlike Leblanc, drops it once every ten seconds and stealths while his immobile decoy is active. Zerick would counter him very hard.

With a grand total of 11 champions who use stealth, Zerick only really hard counters maybe half of them. The odds of him countering much other than Wards is fairly low if you ask me.


So you think its fair for one champion to be able to counter all of these champs? I understand that only part of their abilities are countered, but your champ idea gives them an extreme disadvantage and pokes a huge whole in each of their champion designs. I applaud your creativity and I like the passive, but this champ will never exist in the game because it is simply overpowered. I also admire your quick responses and counter arguments, so more to you, but having true sight and on top of that a hefty ult, I understand its not amazing, but the fact that he gets true sight as a passive and then a mini Leona ult, doesn't that seem a bit unfair?


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Ambir

Junior Member

11-29-2012

As it stands, I find that your e and the ultimate are not balanced. There are not much abilities in the league that gives permanent passive on them, and most of the time, those passive are put on abilities that are a little underpower to give them a second utility. While I can't say why, as everyone else, i think your ultimate is unbalanced, because it's passive is too strong, and the ultimate itself is way too strong.

It does true damage. It does 900 true damage*. That's stronger than darius ultimate, wich is broken. I know it's channelled, but you dont know where it's gonna it, and with a range of 2000, you can't quite cancel it if it's done properly. Just landing that ultimate is an insta-win to a teamfight, for if you even just hit 1 person, that mean they'll be alone, and therefore will die. If not, every person hit will die, because the ultimate will take a very large portion of their health, and it will take a large portion of the health of everyone else around. Just the passive on that ultimate is really strong, so it is really not a good idea to give it an also very strong damage output.

As for the chanelling, what if the ennemy team go baron. You start channeling. They either have to get out the way or be anihilated, and you compleetly zone them out baron. Zigs ultimate would damage and steal baron, but wouldn't guarantee a succefull steal, neither a won teamfight after. Leona ulti would put the odds toward won teamfight, but lacks the damage output to guarantee steal. Your ultimate just does everything at an excessivly long range with a too good passive.

To improve it, you could either remove the stun on it, either say that it gives a warning on the area it targets as the 3 seconds starts and remove the range limitation, either nerf damage, stun and maybe even range so that it is not broken.

For the e, it is also permanent, and i believe it's just too strong to have permanent minions with you. Every abilities that summon something have a duration, and yours should be no exception. Now, if you want, you could give your champ a permanent buff to health regen and another build-in ability that heals him or an ally further while removing the repair drone passive for the cooldown, (that should be by no mean 45 second on a basic ability...)

As i finish writing this, i realise i've not been very nice in what i said, so i'd like to just tell you that this is not meant for you to take as an offence, but more to show you how i think your abilities are too strong. I may be mistaken, and i dont claim you're wrong, i just wanted to help you with a feedback on what i think about your champ. The other abilities as well as the lore and apparence are really gread. Keep going and you have my support. ^^