League of Legends.. just a broken game

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mambawarrior0

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev Jeckel View Post
I have the wins I do because well... I was carried by my fellow players. Thankfully some of them were higher level I was able to play with, and usually those are the only times I can play on even close to even ground with the others is to bring my own high levels into the fight. I really think you should check the individual stats (None bot games of course) before you judge, but really its irrelevant as you just wanted to post some witty insult. I am not here to argue, only to put up the point. I am sorry if you misinterpreted it.
This is why matchmaking is putting you with those people though, because it sees that you played with them and won about half your matches. You might even want to feel proud, it's sort of a compliment. Also, K/D doesn't matter as much as using strategy to win. I won a game recently where our team was behind all game, but we won due to superior teamwork and not engaging in teamfights, just small skirmishes that we knew we could escape from


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mambawarrior0

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Also, I'd like to point out that 5 games isn't enough for matchmaking to filter out smurfs anyway. They'll end up being filtered out more and more later on. The friend who made a new account to "try again" WAS smurfing. That is exactly what smurfing is, making a new account to play at a lower skill level, and he is part of the problem.


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Rev Jeckel

Junior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magus Crow View Post
5 games isnt enough of a sample size to be drawing any conclusions from as it takes several games to determine any sort of sembalence of your true ELO. Matchmaking does its best to match you with people of the same ELO range as you. In the beginning your ELO fluxuates quite a bit (much the same as ranked placement matches) and an early win streak can grossly overrate your ELO.

Give it 150 games or so and you should be roughly where you are supposed to be.
Oh I understand, 5 games is not near enough. I didn't mean it as the point of ELO wise, but only that he ran into the people he faced. It was the best I could get (As far as someone playing games who has never played before) so I thought I would point it out that he kept running into these people. I did not mean to infer that he did because of the ELO, only to point out the people he consistently ran into. Maybe if your saying if he would of kept playing these games it would be different, well.. I don't know how to test that without more games so that could be true, but it can still show a problem.

I thought I would clarify as I can see that point wasn't very clear, the part trying to be in a group with friends, and being considered a pre-made is really the only part I meant to include the matchmaking itself.


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Magus Crow

Senior Member

11-11-2012

The matchmaking system automatically bumps up the opposition you face if you are going in as a premade as it assumes that your team has better communication and chemistry than any random 5 people of roughly the same ELO as the average of your team. What you are describing is actually built into the system.


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bongofrog

Senior Member

11-11-2012

It doesn't get better. I'm at 350+ wins and I still get huge chunks of groups of games where I can't win no matter what I try. It statistically impossible to lose that often unless there was something broken about how the game selects groups.
Its anything but random.

I almost NEVER get an evenly matched game. I would say 19 out of 20 games are steam rolling lame games that are over in 20-30 minutes. Where one team gets all the kills.


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TwistWrist

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Tsk, I honestly don't understand why people think matchmaking will create super close games.

All it does is try to make your chances even at the start of the game.

However, if a lane has a bad matchup and you don't know the best to deal with it or how to deal with a fed enemy, then of course it'll become onesided as the game goes on.

The idea that matchmaking will create super close games is nonsense. Players have to develop the skills to deal with bad situations for that to happen.

You'll always get games where early mistakes just means you've already lost if you don't do something drastic.

Also, I'm pretty sure there is a lot that you can do. Have you tried improving your builds?


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Oddible

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magus Crow View Post
5 games isnt enough of a sample size to be drawing any conclusions from as it takes several games to determine any sort of sembalence of your true ELO. Matchmaking does its best to match you with people of the same ELO range as you. In the beginning your ELO fluxuates quite a bit (much the same as ranked placement matches) and an early win streak can grossly overrate your ELO.

Give it 150 games or so and you should be roughly where you are supposed to be.
^ This, and remember that even in your last 20 games you could still see a LOT of variance. Statistically RIOT is looking at a huge data pool, individual experience may vary. You may be getting a lot of unusual games, in a month you may be back here complaining that thing are now too easy and you're getting matched up with a bunch of newbs. Things won't tighten up until you start playing ranked games. As long as you're playing unranked, randoms, you're going to get a lot of variability both in teammates and opponents.


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Rev Jeckel

Junior Member

11-11-2012

Wow there are a bit of responses.. So let me get this separated..

First bongfrog... I get what you are saying there, and I know a lot may hate on you for being put into an (at times broken system) I do agree that the chances getting a "Even" match seem to be difficult. Whether it is from Matchmaking, or someone high level just trying to play against low level people there does seem to be a problem. I would say in a day of playing you seem to get very few even matches, but until something is fixed I am not surprised this happens even more at higher levels (Matchmaking side at least)

Second... TwistWrist, I am not saying it has to be a super close game. I understand that sometimes you are paired off against a group that just counters your choices, or the characters they chose are just "Better" (I mean this generally, not trying to say some are OP or anything like that).. Heck not to mention just the chance that somebody just has a good game. The idea you used is "Even" and that is just not true. The problem is they are so "uneven" that the game is just not worth playing, and it is best to try again on the next one. You say things like developing skills and builds, and that will come, but the point is not everyone has the same skills. This is why there is a matchmaking in the first place, and why there can be such a discrepancy between skill levels. The matchmaking system "should" try to make it even, but it doesn't seem to work very well.

Oddible.. So if you get a rank from ranked games, does it check the rank of the other players and match you? I will be honest I don't know much about ranked play as I have not done it before. I liked just playing for fun, looking for a good match (Which is harder and harder to find) and play with friends. I am not big into getting my rank up, or even care about where I place among the people who play. But if it would help put me against more even matched opponents I would give it a try.

Finally I thought about the whole smurf thing, and though I still think it would be good to have a report option I understand that would add a lot of "work" for the people who have to look over it. There is no simple way of checking if it is the same person, I mean you can go by IP Address but that can be changed just about as easy as logging off and back on again. The only way is something intrusive, and really no-one wants that. So I figured why not have a different approach.. Why not make it where Ip Rewards are based off the level of your opponent? If the rewards for going against low levels was not as much as going against higher levels then it might slow some down from doing it.. Then again it might not matter, but it could turn it into more of an occasional thing then something that is always done. If you kept the rewards for bot games the same at low levels, it might even encourage some of those high levels to help the new people learn things against the computer before they go out against each other... Just an Idea though..

Edit: Also let me say.. I came on here expecting a lot.. well lets say "Harsher" responses. Not having much luck in other "Competitive Game" forums. Sure there are some that may disagree, and there may always be a naysayer in the bunch, on the whole the responses have been informative. It surprised me to be honest, as it was not what I was expecting.


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TwistWrist

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev Jeckel View Post
Second... TwistWrist, I am not saying it has to be a super close game. I understand that sometimes you are paired off against a group that just counters your choices, or the characters they chose are just "Better" (I mean this generally, not trying to say some are OP or anything like that).. Heck not to mention just the chance that somebody just has a good game. The idea you used is "Even" and that is just not true. The problem is they are so "uneven" that the game is just not worth playing, and it is best to try again on the next one. You say things like developing skills and builds, and that will come, but the point is not everyone has the same skills. This is why there is a matchmaking in the first place, and why there can be such a discrepancy between skill levels. The matchmaking system "should" try to make it even, but it doesn't seem to work very well.
No duh. Matchmaking should try to make it even. And it does try ... at the start of the game.

But both you and bongofrog complain about the game become uneven due to player mistakes.

You see one-sided result as a problem with the matchmaker when the problem is with the players.

In a snowball game, there will always be one-sided games. Less if you know how to deal with early game mistakes. More if you don't.

Ultimately, what you are complaining about isn't a matchmaking problem. It is an opportunity to get better at the game.

Also, stop talking about levels. Levels really isn't that important in the game. Flash and having enough runes to jungle is nice but for the most part, it isn't what decide games.

Knowledge, mechanics, and execution are what decide games. Which is why matchmaking is more centered around Elo not levels.

Personally, I'm just really impressed that anyone believes they see all the variables and know the exact skill level of each team from one game and thus know matchmaking has failed them.

It is a system trying to make even teams from inconsistent players; most of who have incomplete knowledge of game. And all this while playing a game with plenty of variance and match-ups.

But regardless of whatever perceived problems that you have with the matchmaking, remember it is not there to make you happy. Equally, it isn't out to get you. The only way to win more games is to get better at the game. Every loss is a chance to learn. LoL isn't a complicated enough game that you can't learn the techniques. You can learn it and get better.

This game ultimately is centered around self-improvement. You still haven't made a single complete argument of why it is uneven other than because you think it is uneven.


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Rev Jeckel

Junior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistWrist View Post
No duh. Matchmaking should try to make it even. And it does ... at the start of the game.

But both you and bongofrog complain about the game become uneven due to player mistakes.

You see one-sided result as a problem with the matchmaker when the problem is with the players.

In a snowball game, there will always be one-sided games. Less if you know how to deal with early game mistakes. More if you don't.

Ultimately, what you are complaining about isn't a matchmaking problem. It is an opportunity to get better at the game.

Also, stop talking about levels. Levels really isn't that important in the game. Flash and having enough runes to jungle is nice but for the most part, it isn't what decide games.

Knowledge, mechanics, and execution is what decide games. Which probably why matchmaking is more centered around Elo than levels.

Personally, I'm just really impressed that anyone believes they see all the variables and know the exact skill level of each team from one game and thus know matchmaking has failed them.

It is a system trying to make even teams from inconsistent players; most of who have incomplete knowledge of game. And all this while playing a game with plenty of variance and match-ups.

But regardless of whatever perceived problems that you have with the matchmaking, remember it is not there to make you happy. Equally, it isn't out to get you. The only way to win more games is to get better at the game. Every loss is a chance to learn. LoL isn't a complicated enough game that you can't learn the techniques. You can learn it and get better.

This game ultimately is centered around self-improvement. You still haven't made a single complete argument of why it is uneven other than because you think it is uneven.
Humm.. maybe I should put it another way.. Your right, there is always something that a person does wrong that either cost them the game, or makes it more difficult. The Champ selection, or even original lane decision has an effect, but when it comes down to it, there is usually some kind of mistake that happens. I fully agree, and I am not saying that isn't true. Now the point comes into, that itself.. right there is a part of "Skill Level" a person of higher skill level is less often to miss a skill shot, or know to hide in a bush because they can't be targeted by X Champ. I am not saying I am better then the team that just trashed mine, I am saying that their skill level at the games, at the very things you listed is higher, and because of that it is an "uneven" game. The level thing.. your also right there, I merely mean it as a marker of experience, skill, etc. I don't mean it as it is the important thing, only what it represents.

Finally its an option to get better at the game? There are many other ways of getting better at the game then just going against people who have been playing for longer, or are just always better then where you are currently at. I thought this was the concept behind matchmaking in the first place?

Edit:
Frankly I am surprised that you haven't, or at least when ya have you haven't gone wow yea... that was off. I am not going to speak of what you have or have not ran into of course (I am not you), but I will say it has been quite obvious several times someone(s) run off with the game, and there is no chance for the other team, as they are just not near as good at it.

Also I know it is not to make anyone happy, but a system with a problem is still that. It is there for a specific purpose, and it is not fulfilling that purpose. Happy or not that is the problem...

Finally I haven't got into specific examples of it happening, because then it would be an argument about the numbers, and what they "Mean", or how of course they got tons of kills because you guys did this.. That isn't the point, all this happens because the skill levels are so different, and though you may not "perceive" the problem there are quite a few getting messed up match ups that do.


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