Bruisers and TT

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Round Face

Senior Member

11-10-2012

It's no secret that the bruiser archetype dominates the Twisted Treeline meta. In most matches, the champions seen being played are all tanky DPS. The current team composition generally consists of two or three bruisers with very little variation. I believe the following reasons touch on why this is.

Level 1 fights are naturally in favour of teams consisting of Bruisers.

They have naturally high survivability and damage when compared to the other character roles at level 1. In a compact map such as Twisted Treeline, this is especially advantageous due to the fact that anything that is not a bruiser takes time and farm in order to become a significant threat. With the focus on early fights (partially due to the altars, and partially due to map design), other champion types cannot engage, and must cede map control.

Even with the altar unlock time being pushed back to three minutes, bruisers will still be able to dominate and establish control over the jungle and altars. The amount of farm that a champion can get in 1 minute and a half is not enough to compete with bruisers in a low level fight (levels 2-3 are likely in this case), especially when you consider that players will not likely base in order to buy with the farm earned during this time period.

The new map favours most of the Bruiser's skillsets.

Most bruisers that have been released have some form of gap closing, usually tied with a form of crowd control. This may be a stun, a slow, or a knock up, but the end result is the same: the bruiser gets to leap on the target and stick on them. Many champions cannot disengage from this situation. Champions without strong crowd control abilities or blinks have an especially hard time in this environment, as there is no escaping once the bruiser has dashed to them. In Summoner's Rift, this is not a problem. Kiting the bruiser and keeping one's distance, as well as having vision helps to keep these situations from happening. If the character is out of range to be dashed on, then the character is generally safe, and wards give ample time to react to potential ganks.

However, with the current map setup, keeping distance from these bruisers is nigh impossible, as the map is very small compared to Summoner's Rift. In addition, the entrances to the lane are so close that there is virtually no time to react to these ganks, as by the time they have entered the lane, they are already within gap closing distance. With a lanemate, it is very easy to chain CC the target and defeat them within a very short time frame.

With the way the lanes are set up, pushing even slightly past tower range is very dangerous. This means that any champions without these escapes are going to be very gankable at any given time with the lane pushed out, so most of the time they will be camped under their own tower. This also feeds into the problem of losing map control. The enemy character in the lane will be free to roam, with little chance of the non-bruiser being a threat.

The reveal items don't really help to solve this problem, either. If the player reveals an incoming gank, there's generally not a lot that they can do about it because the jungle is so close to the lane. It ends up being a situation where you can see the gank coming about 3 seconds earlier before they reach the lane and jump on you.

Items don't really help other archetypes until they get enough farm.

This feeds into the problem of being afraid to leave the tower radius. Getting farm in these cases will be very difficult. Bruisers can generally farm without worry because they are much less fragile than the other archetypes, and many times have some form of disengage mechanism. In cases where the bruiser is even slightly ahead in lane, this leads to the other archetype losing out on farm, leading to gold starvation.

The new items that are released don't help until mid or late game, as there are no early game items that help out carries or mages. There's nothing that can really help to combat bruisers on the current map early. Partly because of this, bruisers tend to spiral out of control, leading to them becoming more and more farmed whereas the non bruiser becomes more and more gold starved.


While there are other reasons Bruisers work so well on the new Twisted Treeline, I believe that these are three big ones why they dominate so well. When the bruisers dominate a game, there tends to be little chance for the other team to reach their end game, especially when the team varies from the current meta.


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lirm

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Round Face View Post
Level 1 fights are naturally in favour of teams consisting of Bruisers.
While most of your points here are accurate, it's not to say you can't win with other hero types. You just can't face fight at level 1. If you're playing anything other than a bruiser, you have to actually play like your class. Kite, ambush, team kill. Of course if your dumb enough to engage in a 1v1/2/3 face fight you'll get destroyed. You don't take a spoon to a knife fight, you take a gun and shoot from behind the sofa.


Quote:
The new map favours most of the Bruiser's skillsets.



These points are accurate as well, but have plagued TT since long before the map change. And quite frankly, they are all very counterable. Ward important locations, don't over extend and if you can't see you're enemy on the minimap by god start running back to your base/tower/teammates. Yes you have to play a safer, longer term game (and quite frankly I quite enjoy that as once the squishies hit level 6 and have their first non-boot high end item they tend to ruin bruisers.) But you don't run a race to beat the opposition halfway, you run it to beat them to the finish line.

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Items don't really help other archetypes until they get enough farm..
Items do help other archetypes, the problem is farming to get them. Most people want to farm and save for high end items, without utilising low end high powered items like the brutaliser or haunted guise(I haven't play AP in a long time is that even still around?) So when a bruiser, who is built to do damage without much items early game, has a few low level items and you're still carrying around your blasting wand waiting to upgrade to rabadans of course you're going to get out itemed in fights. The trick is to item against you're opposition (well, counter pick THEN item against). Not just playing the same way, and raging that the way you play is being destroyed by its counter.

And when you say "bruisers can farm without problems" I think you're plain wrong (except singed, mumu and sion after a certain point, but these heroes you have to shut down early). Squishies have ranged attacks. This lets them farm and harass the bruisers so that they can't farm without worry. Harass, play safe, pounce on any opportunity you get.

Over all, yes bruisers are easier to play in a smaller team composition. And yes they have an easier early game and better face fighting ability. But the people who struggle with that while playing the dps roles are the people who like to face fight, play solo games, item towards a stale meta and not ward/look at minimap. Every role has a way to win, you just need to play it.


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XPrimeX

Member

11-10-2012

Did you really give advice to ward on this map?


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Round Face

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
While most of your points here are accurate, it's not to say you can't win with other hero types. You just can't face fight at level 1. If you're playing anything other than a bruiser, you have to actually play like your class. Kite, ambush, team kill. Of course if your dumb enough to engage in a 1v1/2/3 face fight you'll get destroyed. You don't take a spoon to a knife fight, you take a gun and shoot from behind the sofa.
My big problem with this argument is that the early fighting is what wins you map control. Deviating from the bruiser archetype puts your team at a severe disadvantage from the start, where fighting over the altars is a key strategy in order to gain dominance. While the altars are controlled, the team becomes much stronger with more damage and gold gain while farming, while the ones without control are just that much weaker (especially when you consider that the other archetypes need farm in order to begin to become effective).

Quote:
These points are accurate as well, but have plagued TT since long before the map change. And quite frankly, they are all very counterable. Ward important locations, don't over extend and if you can't see you're enemy on the minimap by god start running back to your base/tower/teammates. Yes you have to play a safer, longer term game (and quite frankly I quite enjoy that as once the squishies hit level 6 and have their first non-boot high end item they tend to ruin bruisers.) But you don't run a race to beat the opposition halfway, you run it to beat them to the finish line.
Only certain characters can even use abilities that count as wards (Nidalee, Teemo, Shaco, etc). Some of these characters have never had a problem in the old Twisted Treeline, either.

Also, the advice to 'not overextend' and to 'play safe when you cannot see one of the enemies' would entail, as I pointed out in the original post, to never leave your tower range. Not only are lanes ridiculously easy to gank, but the new map favors having a third character as a jungler. This means that both pieces of advice you just gave mean are pretty much supporting what I have said: Never leave your tower range. There will be a jungler at all times (unless he's ganking a lane), and leaving the safety of your tower means you are actually overextending.

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Items do help other archetypes, the problem is farming to get them. Most people want to farm and save for high end items, without utilising low end high powered items like the brutaliser or haunted guise(I haven't play AP in a long time is that even still around?) So when a bruiser, who is built to do damage without much items early game, has a few low level items and you're still carrying around your blasting wand waiting to upgrade to rabadans of course you're going to get out itemed in fights. The trick is to item against you're opposition (well, counter pick THEN item against). Not just playing the same way, and raging that the way you play is being destroyed by its counter.
I'm not really sure what you're saying here, and it sounds like you don't really have much advice to give either. You aren't even sure of the items on the map (by your own admission), and probably don't realize that there aren't a lot of low end AP or AD items that can help combat bruisers. Haunting Guise and Brutalizer could be considered low end items, but the bruisers actually get much more use out of them (Rumble, for instance, gets a lot more out of the Haunting Guise than Ahri, for instance). In essence, these items make the Tanky DPS do more damage while still being highly survivable. Rabadon's Deathcap is not an item on this new map, as it was replaced with the Wooglet's Witchcap. This is a great end-game item, but it is very difficult to farm on AP champions. It also doesn't really address the innate problems that AP characters have on this map. In contrast, the item, 'Lord Van Damm's Pillager,' builds out of the Brutilizer (a very common item on Bruisers), and only serves to exacerbate the problem.

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And when you say "bruisers can farm without problems" I think you're plain wrong (except singed, mumu and sion after a certain point, but these heroes you have to shut down early). Squishies have ranged attacks. This lets them farm and harass the bruisers so that they can't farm without worry. Harass, play safe, pounce on any opportunity you get.
Bruisers can indeed farm in relative safety, especially when you consider that many AD and AP characters are much less tanky than the Bruisers. Ranged attacks against the bruiser can whittle them down, yes, but again, the size of the map makes this very dangerous. A gank or a dash would destroy the AD Carry, for instance. Even on Summoner's Rift, Bruisers can dominate AD and AP carries (which is one reason that ganks by bruisers work so well), but as mentioned in the original post, you can actually ward in that map and be better prepared for them. In the new Twisted Treeline, you actually cannot ward, despite your advice to (Again, this is outside of certain champions).

Quote:
Over all, yes bruisers are easier to play in a smaller team composition. And yes they have an easier early game and better face fighting ability. But the people who struggle with that while playing the dps roles are the people who like to face fight, play solo games, item towards a stale meta and not ward/look at minimap. Every role has a way to win, you just need to play it.
I don't really know how to respond to this. I have basically outlined why anything other than a bruiser cannot go head-first into most battles, but you seem to think that I love to engage whenever possible. In addition, the current meta is basically three bruisers or two bruisers and a varying third character. While I personally believe that this is a stale meta, apparently seeing bruisers in every match doesn't seem stale to you, nor is the itemization that they tend to build.

And yes, every role has a way to win, it's just that the Bruiser archetype can win early, mid, and late game. Other champions types have to wait until the endgame to get their build, but most times cannot reach the end game.


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Unique Kantilope

Member

11-10-2012

bruisers generally have more flexibilty and can do the jobs of several other classes at the same time, although not as potently obviously. vladimir for example has damage similar to, but below, that of a full-fledged AP-carry, while also sharing alot of the survivability found in tanks.
i hope none of that shocks you
but how it pertains to TT is that as teams consist of 3 people versus 5 you cant spread out tasks to highly specialized classes, you need to cram as many roles into as few heroes as possible, and bruisers make that easy.

also the average game length favors bruisers over carries.


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Dreampod

Senior Member

11-10-2012

I don't think that bruisers are strictly better but generally they dominate in uncoordinated play like solo queue. In team play a bruiser or tank is absolutely necessary but AD and Mages perform really well. Bruisers perform well in solo TT for the same reason bruisers perform well in SR - they have a high skill floor. That said I've had a reasonably high amount of success with Cait, Kog, Vayne, and Teemo as carries and Nidalee, Cass, and Annie as AP.

Losing the first altar isn't crippling, particularly if you push the lanes as hard as you can safely which forces bruisers to lose farm to trying to gank the other lane, lose farm to the tower, or burn lots of mana to clear quickly which means they are going to be weak in the next teamfight. You need to pressure their weaknesses if you are going to allow them to pressure yours.