The new Blackfire torch is way to over powered

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Nome or Die

Game Designer

11-12-2012
1 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boagster View Post
This is their biggest mistake then. 50% reduction might be too much, but keeping the damage even is keeping the item awfully balanced in favour of AoE. 33% reduction, maybe?




Yes, yes it is. If they don't reinstate the damage reduction, maybe at least slow/stop charges regenerating during combat?
AoE's "disadvantage" is that it will burn faster; if you tag two opponents, charges will expend twice as fast.

The item will likely be unbalanced a bit. We'll use it as a springboard to make further changes. I generally prescribe to the theory of erring on the side of OP to increase adoption and play rates. This generates much more balance information. inb4 riot champion balance conspiracy... I don't work on champs!


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Boagster

Senior Member

11-12-2012

I understand that's why the charges were put in. Still, with three targets, that's 8.3333 seconds a piece (8 for two, 9 for one if you use normal rounding; 9 if the single left over one will tick for all three debuffs). That's 40-45% of max health before reduction. I understand that 8 seconds can be long in a teamfight, but that's usually nothing for a good Singed. That's a lot of damage.

I'll wait to try it out before I stick to my 33% reduction comment.

Thanks for being so active in answering Blackfire Torch questions, RiotNome. I know a lot of people are frustrated with the lack of Riot presence in regard to the new map, but I understand that it's hard and/or futile to try and handle "THE NEW TT SUCKS" posts. Much kudos to the staff!


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Lagom0rph

Junior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boagster View Post
I understand that's why the charges were put in. Still, with three targets, that's 8.3333 seconds a piece (8 for two, 9 for one if you use normal rounding; 9 if the single left over one will tick for all three debuffs). That's 40-45% of max health before reduction. I understand that 8 seconds can be long in a teamfight, but that's usually nothing for a good Singed. That's a lot of damage.

I'll wait to try it out before I stick to my 33% reduction comment.

Thanks for being so active in answering Blackfire Torch questions, RiotNome. I know a lot of people are frustrated with the lack of Riot presence in regard to the new map, but I understand that it's hard and/or futile to try and handle "THE NEW TT SUCKS" posts. Much kudos to the staff!

Sorry to pick on just you, but all the threads I've seen complaining that the torch is OP seem to be making the same mistake with their math.
The item text says "Your spells burn for an additional 5% of the target champion's maximum Health in magic damage over 3 seconds."

If you tick it continuously for 8 seconds you didn't do: 5% * 8 = 40% damage.
You did: (5/3) * 8 = 13.333 % damage.
HUGE difference.


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ploki122

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
inb4 riot champion balance conspiracy... I don't work on champs!
Except that designers acknowledge that they do things in a very similar way... for terribly similar reasons. Look at Syndra, she is now viable and way underplayed...


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Nome or Die

Game Designer

11-12-2012
2 of 2 Riot Posts

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Originally Posted by ploki122 View Post
Except that designers acknowledge that they do things in a very similar way... for terribly similar reasons. Look at Syndra, she is now viable and way underplayed...
If that's so, I wouldn't know. I don't work on those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boagster View Post
I understand that's why the charges were put in. Still, with three targets, that's 8.3333 seconds a piece (8 for two, 9 for one if you use normal rounding; 9 if the single left over one will tick for all three debuffs). That's 40-45% of max health before reduction. I understand that 8 seconds can be long in a teamfight, but that's usually nothing for a good Singed. That's a lot of damage.

I'll wait to try it out before I stick to my 33% reduction comment.

Thanks for being so active in answering Blackfire Torch questions, RiotNome. I know a lot of people are frustrated with the lack of Riot presence in regard to the new map, but I understand that it's hard and/or futile to try and handle "THE NEW TT SUCKS" posts. Much kudos to the staff!
Remember that it's 5% over 3 seconds. This means that if you're burning for 8 seconds per champ, you're actually doing ~13% max health.


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Boagster

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagom0rph View Post
Sorry to pick on just you, but all the threads I've seen complaining that the torch is OP seem to be making the same mistake with their math.
The item text says "Your spells burn for an additional 5% of the target champion's maximum Health in magic damage over 3 seconds."

If you tick it continuously for 8 seconds you didn't do: 5% * 8 = 40% damage.
You did: (5/3) * 8 = 13.333 % damage.
HUGE difference.
It's actually really funny that you mention that, because I did an entire thing of math on the current health thing of the old Blackfire Torch where I didn't make that error. I don't know how I could do it here.


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Murciélagø

Member

11-13-2012

OP


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Infirc

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Senior Member

11-13-2012

t's erring a little on the strong side but i honestly prefer mages bein able to use this conciously and not getting fre ekills than picking olaf or an already dare i say completely OP piece of garbage ? building a pilager then sitting on your keyboard and getting a triple kill while you move your butt around the keys.


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MrSmileyy

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Senior Member

11-13-2012

casters can fight bruisers and maybe kill them EGADS


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XReyoX

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Still looking for something which can benefit squishy mages more though. I don't think we need more items which are very good for singed.